Freeview Play Mystery

[kofi2003uk]

Hi all
am a bit confused with my freeview play. i set up a smart tv(amazon fire tv) and connected to my wifi. i connected my loft aerial wall output to the tv, searched channels and it seemed to be working fine for freeview play. i see the freeview guide when i press the guide button on the fire tv remote.

since yesterday i started getting no/low signal intermittently with the pictures and sound cutting out sometimes for 30sec and then back . i thought it was an issue with the connection to the aerial in loft.
this morning i unplugged the aerial cable from the wall while tv was on and tv kept working. bbc channels still working. ITV1 which i was getting constant interruptions also working with the coax aerial cable unplugged from the wall and just hanging from back of TV.
if i unplug the cable from back of tv as well, it stops working.
it seems the tv somehow is using just the cable hanging as an aerial? am confused. i thought channels like the bbc wouldnt work live without an aerial, unless i used iplayer?
so is ITV1- i thought without an aerial it would only work via internet on itvx?

yes tv is connected to the internet but i dont seem to have lost the channels i need an aerial for, with the aerial just hanging from back of tv. strangely if i unplug cable from back of tv as well, then i loose the signal and tv stops working. left me scratching my head...

with the free to air channels like bbc and itv working with the cable not plugged into the wall, am lost as to why i get the intermittent 'no signal' message with tv cutting out when the cable is actually plugged into the aerial socket.

hope this makes sense to the more experienced ones out there? and you can explain what is going on please?

thank you

 

[foxhole]

In a good signal area anything metal will get some kind of signal stuck in the aerial socket on the tv.(once got a signal dangling a string of paper clips from tv )
You roof aerial is either misaligned or connections are faulty at one end or both.

 

[kofi2003uk]

many thanks for the response. am thinking of just having satelite dish installed. better than the hussle with aerials... will cost more but i think better signals and hopefully not blown off by wind. will get some freesat boxes. thank you

 

[Fred Blogs]

I would stick with your arial if I were you. A lot more to go wrong with a sat dish than there is with an arial. Sat dish can be blown off the signal and it only takes a small movement. The LNB can get wet and or just stop working if not sealed properly. Same with the coax any water in it and you get no signal. Also the LNB needs power which an arial doesn't unless you have an arial amplifier and any water can cause a short which could blow your box. I will admit that these are very rare faults but they do happen. Also unless you want, stupidly expensive, sky (why would anyone want that) then the channels from an sat dish are the same as the channels from an arial

 

[Rodders53]

Agreed, the aerial fly lead can pick up a signal when in strong signal locations... I use one as an aerial in one bedroom, albeit with the end stripped back to form a T shape.

What does the TV report for signal strength and quality on
1 BBC ONE SD
101 BBC One HD
2 ITV1 SD
That'll cover the main 3 multiplex frequencies.

Do you have any aerial amplifiers (aka boosters) in the aerial system? It's possible to have too much signal and overload some sensitive receivers, especially with amplification.

Have you checked to see if your location may be prone to mobile phone interference at https://restoretv.uk/
If so they should sort it at no cost to you.

the channels from an sat dish are the same as the channels from an arial

No they are not.
Freesat has every BBC English Region and Nation available to watch (in HD), as well as channels such as BBC Scotland HD, S4C HD, ITV 2 HD, ITV 3 HD, ITV 4 HD and quite a few others that are not on terrestrial in HD (or at all).
Conversely Freeview has an odd very local channel that aren't on satellite.
Compare the line ups at https://www.freesat.co.uk/channels with https://www.freeview.co.uk/freeview-channel-checker (although the Freeview website is broken for me at the moment).

Mind, the only currently made Freesat PVR is a bit of a mess

That said many TV channels are becoming available as live streaming channels... The latest Freely https://www.freely.co.uk/ TV models I believe can switch from aerial reception to streaming if required. That's a newer feature than the Freeview Play sets specification, though.

The future is streaming rather than broadcasting via terrestrial or satellite.

 

[kofi2003uk]

thanks so much for the responses. i get no signal or low quality signal. then the signal bars with a line through. comes and goes. that said i checked the signal yesterday and it was 100% and 60% . although i cant remember which was which .
there is an amplifier in the loft. been there for ages . was there when i moved in 6 years ago. thank you

 

[kofi2003uk]

I would stick with your arial if I were you. A lot more to go wrong with a sat dish than there is with an arial. Sat dish can be blown off the signal and it only takes a small movement. The LNB can get wet and or just stop working if not sealed properly. Same with the coax any water in it and you get no signal. Also the LNB needs power which an arial doesn't unless you have an arial amplifier and any water can cause a short which could blow your box. I will admit that these are very rare faults but they do happen. Also unless you want, stupidly expensive, sky (why would anyone want that) then the channels from an sat dish are the same as the channels from an arial

ha am a bit confused now... thought otherwise

 

[Rodders53]

Check the meter numbers again. If s=100 with q=60 that might account for the picture breakup: poor Q-uality due to too much S-ignal.

Go check the box in the loft. Take pictures / note down make and model numbers if possible. Some have a variable gain control. If yours has try reducing the gain a bit and repeat the measurements. See if the breakup reduces.

How many outlets does it have and how many are used/needed?

If the S=60 and Q=100 then one would expect rock solid reception.

 

[kofi2003uk]

thanks chaps. took pictures below. funny enough doesnt seem to make much difference if i switch them off or leave them on. no obvious switch to turn gain down either.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

thanks chaps. took pictures below. funny enough doesnt seem to make much difference if i switch them off or leave them on. no obvious switch to turn gain down either.

Is this in a house, or flats? Two distribution units, in one house, would seem to be excessive. If in flats, then you might be turning off other people's antennas.

 

[kofi2003uk]

no this is a house... its a 4bed house with 3 receptions and an office. this was all already installed before i moved in though so i really dont know how its all cabled and set up. a bit of a pain really as there is no schematics/labelling anywhere lol thank you

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

no this is a house... its a 4bed house with 3 receptions and an office. this was all already installed before i moved in though so i really dont know how its all cabled and set up. a bit of a pain really as there is no schematics/labelling anywhere lol thank you

I would make a start, by working out, and labelling, which cables go where. You can do that with some sort of continuity tester (even a bell and battery), plus a long wire.

 

[kofi2003uk]

thank you all for your advice. much appreciated

 

[Rodders53]

A lot of detective work may be needed...
Check if there are other UHF TV aerials in addition to the one feeding the white Labgear box. On roof or in loft/attic space(s).

The white Labgear box has two aerial inputs connected:
UHF TV in one and VHF (FM and/or DAB) in the other.
Eight (8) output used - each with +10 dB gain over the input level
One (FULL) also used - which is +17 dB gain (intended to be used with a very long cable run and/or passive splitting to extra outlets.
It'll be an older version of the https://www.philex.com/product/lda2081k/ with similar spec.

The black box is an Antiference A240D IR/magic eye compatible device for an old $ky box or other RF modulator distribution... https://files.d-tools.com/Visualiza...ce/Documents/Antiference_A280DLTE_Manual1.pdf
That provides a gain of +8dB from input to output (three out of four in use).
Most likely that's fed from a cable next to where a Sat box or other device was up to the loft and allowed the RF modulated device to be watched and controlled from three other rooms. UHF TV would be added in via the box --- so those three outputs may not work?

Normally powering off active distribution ensures no signals are received. So if both off makes no difference to this TV suggests that another aerial feed to that TV exists or you have so much signal available that 'direct cable pickup' from the transmitter is occurring (due to poorly screened cabling and a very strong signal in your location. {That also ties in with disconnecting the fly lead from the wall plate.}

Are you using any of the other rooms' TV sockets with other TVs???

All that's a LOT of amplification and may account for a high signal and overload.

LOCATION? A nearby postcode will allow estimates of field strength available. Shop/pub/church/school within 100m of your own would be ideal.

What is the loft aerial used (picture may allow us to ID and work out how much gain it provides. Then we can also do some gain / loss calculations to see if the signals out are likely to meet the ideal target of 45-65 dB ref 1microVolt at the receiver(s).

It's very rare to find any labelling of TV distribution system cables, sadly. Even new builds simply have cables coiled up with no markings to ID which rooms they go to, typically.
4 beds, 3 receptions, office plus a kitchen/diner say makes 9 outlets, so there's three extra? Perhaps?