Good quality kitchen manufacturers?

[ETAF]

wickes comes flat packed
as do IKEA, used the wall units to cover a utility wall floor to ceiling in cupboards worked great

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Howdens were once part of the MFI group, as well as Hygena (who were bought in 1987). Schreiber werecanother of the MFI take-overs.

The problem with trying to name who makes what for whom is that suppliers to big names like B&Q change periodically. There are a lot of firms who sub-contract for better known outfits as well as selling under their own names to the trade.

By "proper joints" do you mean dowel and glue? When I've installed flat pack in the past I've generally glued and cramped the carcasses (if they came with location dowels) as well as adding a few carcass screws (if they weren't stiff enough for my taste). When I did my own in the past I also routinely changed drawer bottoms (tot9mm birch ply) and cabinet backs (to 12 or 18mm MFC) to get a more durable kitchen. Part of the art of getting a good kitchen is to get one that's been well installed

 

[teaboyjim]

Would you need a carpenter to do the same as you to flatpack kitchens? Does the additional work that you do make them equivalent to Howdens solid carcass units?

 

[teaboyjim]

wickes comes flat packed as do IKEA, used the wall units to cover a utility wall floor to ceiling in cupboards worked great

The quality of Ikea kitchens is said to be good but not better than Howdens

 

[lostinthelight]

This year B&Q have a new kitchen range under the Good Home brand with a so called 25year warranty.
Its still flat pack and from what I can see it looks like backward compatable in terms of size and fittings with previous one.
Theyve added four plastic clips that screw through the back panel into the main frame which does stiffen and take all movement out.
They have however downsized the wall unit hangers so small that the screws are so close together thy may merge into one on a less than sound wall.
Picture shows bracing clips ,new and old type hangers

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Why did a massive company like MFI not manage to succeed whereas Ikea managed to and they were both doing the same thing eg flatpack style ...

AFAIK it was firms like B&Q and Argos going into furniture sales which started the rot, followed by the entry of IKEA into the UK. IKEA are a different operation to what MFI was, making a "day out" out of shopping with everything you need for the home (from cutlery to furniture to house plants) which MFI with its' smaller sites couldn't hope to compete. BTW, when IKEA finally got here they were already operating in 6 or 7 European countries (in the 1980s I remember seeing branches in Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands) and were already much bigger than MFI or Habitat (another firm who started a downward trajectory when IKEA came to this country)

An example of subcontractor is something like Flattley's (as in Flattley drier) who are reputed to be one of IKEA's sub contract manufacturers and Moore's who are supposed, at various times to have manufactured kitchens for B&Q. Some firms, like IKEA do all the design work, but not all

MFC can only really be assembled using glue and dowels and metal/plastic KD fittings (of which there is a huge range). Dowels are cheaper and more rigid then biscuits, which is why you never see them on volume production cabinetry. Similarly, whilst Dominos are arguably more rigid than dowels, they cost a lot more (and in any case the slight amount of adjustment of the joints possible with both biscuits and dowels is completely unnecessary on components manufactured using CNC machining centres). Also machining centres can generally drill up to 6 dowel holes simultaneously in a single motion taking a few seconds - so very fast against other techniques. This means pre-assembled tend to be glue and dowels whilst flat pack tend to be a mixture of dowels and KD fittings (which are inserted into drilled recesses). Screws are rarely used by the larger manufacturers

You change the cabinet backs? What are Howdens backs like because someone mentioned there backs were a little bit thin...

The last Howdens kitchens I installed went into council offices about 4 years back. I'm pretty sure they had 8mm thick MFC backs. Because they specified massive water heater/filter combos to be installed it was necessary to modify some of the base units to accommodate these beneath the sinks, so we installed 18mm pre-edged MFC upstands at the back (about 250mm tall - above that the wall was visible, at least until the heater went in)

Would I have to hire a carpenter to be able to do what you do to the flatpack?

I think a competent DIYer should be able do the job

Would you say that by doing the flatpack kitchens like you do with the additional quality would they then be equivalent to Howdens solid carcass units?

No, but you can considerably improve the rigidity of the carcases, strength of the backs and of the drawer bottoms. Whilst you can't improve the quality of the carcasses much (for example it is nigh on impossible to replace an "iron on" 0.6mm melamine edging with a 3mm PVC edging that has radius edges) you can install your own wire work, putting stronger backs, fit stringer drawer bottoms and seal all cut chipboard edges (with clear lacquer or sllicone for better moisture resistance - especially on the sink unit). Not all fitters sell back edges. TBH a good install by a competent fitter can make all the difference to whether your kitchen is just OK or excellent

 

[teaboyjim]

Theyve added four plastic clips that screw through the back panel into the main frame which does stiffen and take all movement out.

How do these compare with the other flat packed kitchens?

 

[Shepton Phil]

Just had a Shereton kitchen installed. Excellent quality, but twice the price of DIY kitchens on Yorkshire that my nephew used, and his cabinets and doors look identical to mine. He even had a colour choice that I didn’t, any Farrow and Ball colour. If I had to do it again, I’d absolutely use DIY of Yorkshire.

 

[teaboyjim]

Just had a Shereton kitchen installed. Excellent quality, but twice the price of DIY kitchens on Yorkshire that my nephew used, and his cabinets and doors look identical to mine. He even had a colour choice that I didn’t, any Farrow and Ball colour. If I had to do it again, I’d absolutely use DIY of Yorkshire.

Professionals have rated them as being good value for money and good quality

 

[Shepton Phil]

I haven't personally seen them but I know people who are "authorities" on good kitchens such as tradesman who fit them have rated them as being good value for money and good quality as well. I don't like the idea of them being so far away though so I'd probably stick with Howdens because I like a physical place where I can go in and sort out any general issues that come up

Understand that, one reason we bought from a local supplier. SIL even took a trip uup North, to see the showroom before committing. Unfortunately I’d ordered mine before he’d fitted his.

 

[Ian H]

I used DIY kitchens as well.

They sounded dodgy so I went to their showroom on Pontefract and was very impressed.

It’s been 4 years now and the only thing I can fault is that the screw for the handle on the corner unit has scratched the door of the unit next to it. Also next time I won’t use a 1000mm wall unit, I’d use 2 x 500’s because the 1000 sag slightly in the middle.

 

[mrrusty]

I can fault is that the screw for the handle on the corner unit has scratched the door of the unit next to it

I always recess the screw heads on handles on corner units for this very reason, but of course learned to do this the hard way...

Yes, I used DIY for a bespoke painted kitchen 2 years ago and still perfect. Also, we got the granite worktop through them. they subbed it out to natural stone surfaces, and very impressed with them - top job.

 

[Ian H]

I always recess the screw heads on handles on corner units for this very reason, but of course learned to do this the hard way...

Yes, I used DIY for a bespoke painted kitchen 2 years ago and still perfect. Also, we got the granite worktop through them. they subbed it out to natural stone surfaces, and very impressed with them - top job.

I’ll always do that now so guess the fault was really mine not theirs

 

[teaboyjim]

How do DIY kitchens compare to Howdens for price, quality and value for money?

 

[diy_fun_uk]

I'm going back 25ish years so very likely of no relevance now however I remember at the time being more impressed with Homebase kitchens than B&Q. I bought the former, installed it myself and overall liked the quality, bar one door where the lacquer wasn't quite right but was minimal so just threw it on Stayed in the house 15ish years and it was still in good order.

I sometimes think some kitchens get a bad reputation and no doubt often well founded. However the abuse some kitchens get and then the owner says 'rubbish quality!'