handbrake turns

[pipme]

Great all-rounder, needed to be tough and quick enough, the demise of the group B super rally cars spelt the end IMHO.
1968-98 30 yrs of Escort rally success ... some record.
The Group B beauty...

http://www.rsownersclub.co.uk/car_info/esc31700t.htm

Of course the most lethaly fast rally cars were banned after several deaths including another very pleasant guy, Henri Toivenen (very approachable he posed for my camera at final time control end of RAC at Bath, way back) the young Frenchman in the Lancia Delta S4 New for 1986 This car was considered as the epitamy of group B rallying. It flattened the already outragously quick Audi S1 and the pug 205 T16's. Boost could be as high as over 600bhp and Henri Toivenen lapped the portugese F1 Gp track that year in a time quick enough to secure 6th on the Gp F1 grid! It and Toivenen were dominating rallying that year untill He and his co-driver were killed at the Corsica event after rolling off a cliff. Kankunen and peugeot were left to pick up the pieces before group B was banned.

Never had rally cars like the bees - before or since !!
P

 

[AdamW]

I have read of the Group B cars and dreamed, but it does seem a bit mad to take F1 power levels, and stick it in a small family hatch that drives around rocks and cliffs on unmade roads!

Isn't the "Pikes Peak" event in the US similar to a rally? It is a hillclimb but I believe it is done on unmade roads, and the cars are equivalent to Group B performance.

 

[david and julie]

Only a personal opinion and I know its not like for like, but I cannot think of a single aspect of F1 that comes anywhere near a major rally including the drivers.

Talking about drivers I would have liked to have seen fangio in action.

http://www.ddavid.com/formula1/fangio_bio.htm

 

[pipme]

Brit GP 1950. Fangio's first Brit GP ... DNF, but lead for one lap.
http://www.formulaone.free-online.co.uk/formulaone/history/1950/britain.html

The 'good old days' Look at the 10th place car, Maserati No.10 shared
drive. That was a 'Chocolate family Fry', .. from next door to Bristol Airport, where the family no longer have a presence.
Joe Fry was a privateer and lover of mo-sport, he sadly lost his life some time after the GP, competing at Blandford in Dorset ... He and others, played a large part in the 500 cc single seater racing of the time. .... He would, of course never have known the importance of the man he beat in that GP...
Joe's special :-
http://www.500race.org/Marques/Freikaiserwagen.htm

The forrunners, rear engine single seaters, see how west country became mo-sport mad !! :-
http://www.500race.org/index.htm
Stirling Moss would surely have been WC in the absence of Juan manuel.

Mr F1, Bernie E' was a bit of a competitor too :-

The rallying scene has always been great ... We tracked the RAC, with a copy of the official 'road book' on that final Stratos rally, back when they drove all day and night ... we we shattered just trying to follow with two drivers .. but we made it and had a presence at most of the real stages, most memorable - Clipstone Nottingham - North yorks moors - Kielder - Grisedale Lake dis.- Wales - The drivers Waldegaard, Mikkola, , Alen, Roger Clark and Tony Pond (both deceased ?) and many more greats. .... Goto the 'real' stages to see real, unbelievable, driving ......

Let Mr Moss sum it all up in this :-

Moss still keeps track of the current Grand Prix scene and is not hesitant to voice his opinion on current circuit design and their vast run-off areas and ubiquitous chicanes. "To race a car through a turn at maximum speed, is difficult", he said, "but to race a car at maximum speed through that same turn when there is a brick wall on one side and a precipice on the other - Ah, that's an achievement."

And he could do that in a variety of cars .... never shirked a racing challenge by man,machine or racing venue - be it road or track.
Partenered Fangio without histrionics or petulance.
Never bumped anyone off the track in pursuit of victory ! But was a hard racer who would use, never abuse, the rules when necessary ...
Does he ever age ??
P

 

[IanDB]

Is it true to say that as most cars are front wheel drive nowadays that the traditional handbrake turn is a thing of the past?

I always thought that you started your turn, applied the handbrake to lock the back wheels then put on the gas to get the wheels spinning and maintain the turn. Pretty spectacular if done correctly. Unfortunately this doesn't work with front wheel drive in the same way.

 

[AdamW]

Perhaps it is a slightly different manoeuver in that you don't apply power until you are facing the intended direction, but rally drivers still use them on tight hairpins in fwd cars.

It is probably the same as the difference between rwd oversteer and fwd oversteer.

 

[pipme]

Stratos for sale 99,000 euros Mint.

Ferrrari lump.

 

[AdamW]

So who do I give the deeds to my flat in order to own that?

Although, £65K. For that you can have a Lamborghini Countach. Or a brand new TVR Cerbera and change!

 

[pipme]

32,000 E gets you this pretty little runabout :-

Ever wondered why ? Imagine sitting in this, looking along those beautiful curves, almost timeless. 72,000 euro.

P

 

[ohmygodwhathaveyoudone]

i think it was the 99 saab that had the handbrake on the front wheels does'nt bear thinking about.

 

[pipme]

Just look again at the 'big cat', what a car !! .. drive it fast or slow -- it surely put the 'lass' in class !! You would not be looking at the handbrake-- even the pneumatic blonde would come (very close) second to the car.... What a crumpet puller !! Real VFM !!

 

[SparkyTris]

The Common or Garden LWB transit van is perfect for handbrake turns. Provided it's got clapped-out tires and is empty it can get you right round the circle at around 30 mph on a moist yard. On a snowy yard, it has been known to spin 3 times given a <10 mph starting velocity.
Box Henries - what are they NOT good for?!!

 

[pipme]

Running down posters to this forum !! M8. Cannot get down the cable !!

 

[trey]

[/quote] A winning combination ..Mikkola in his legendary Escort, somewhere in Wales same rally heading queue at stage start .. note the M&S tyres !!

Did Marks and Spencer sell tyres then ?

Blow me , you learn something everyday

 

[Luke]

A fairly old thread, I know.. but yeah.

A little tip I learnt from a Mini stunt driver is to put a piece of gaffa tape over the handbrake-button before pulling a stunt.. Therefore the handbrake, when pulled will apply the handbrake, but you only have to release your hand to put the hand-brake down.

This can be essential if you want to be 'quick' and 'controllable' with the steering.