Has Truss resigned yet?

[Pat ex]

I'm not arguing for anything.

Yes you are, you might want to claim you're not, but you obviously are:

I'm suggesting that Labour are not the answer to our current challenges.

Starmer is wishy washy. He says what he thinks will make him popular,

You see you area arguing on some nebular wishy-washiness.
Do tory MPs not say anything that will make them popular?

he has no depth and he is scared of his own shadow.

Excellent political argument.

I was listening to Rayner frothing last night, she said nothing and has no ideas.

Typical ad hominem Tory (motorbiking) argument.

 

[motorbiking]

I'd go the other way..

Way more efficient to centralise. Build a few hubs and make them compete for the work. Slim down the councils so that they effectively become contract and service level managers. Different police forces, councils etc don't need separate HR and IT functions.

Competition works if it genuinely gives consumer choice.

 

[Notch7]

Competition works if it genuinely gives consumer choice

That’s not how the Conservative govt operates.

It gives contracts out to those that pay it the most money…..there’s no consumer choice, just corruption.

 

[Pat ex]

I'd go the other way..

Way more efficient to centralise. Build a few hubs and make them compete for the work. Slim down the councils so that they effectively become contract and service level managers. Different police forces, councils etc don't need separate HR and IT functions.

Competition works if it genuinely gives consumer choice.

Competition and consumer choice needs to be profit motivated.
Some services should never be profit motivated. Some services can never be profit motivated.

 

[Odds]

He's arguing for the Brexiter Free Market; 'Singapore-on-Thames', model of government.
Read Atlas Unchained for their inspiration. See Republican politics for its demonstrative impact on the world it infects.

 

[motorbiking]

Why.

Put some idiot council/civil service lifer in charge, allow them to deliver nothing and constantly demand more budget or
create an organisation that has to compete to survive, has to deliver more with less and yes deliver profit back to shareholders

competition forces companies to innovate or die.

Things don't have to be profit motivated, just competitive.

 

[JohnD]

I'm sure motorbiking will tell us that selling the water and sewage industry to foreign investors has been good for the nation.

Southern Water fined record £90m for dumping raw sewage

The company admits 6,971 illegal spills at 17 treatment works in Kent, Hampshire and West Sussex.

www.bbc.co.uk

England's privatised water firms paid £57bn in dividends since 1991

Critics say utilities borrowing to pay shareholders instead of improving infrastructure

www.theguardian.com

And doing the same with the railway system has led to top quality transport and reasonable fares. Funnily enough, many of Britain's railways and energy companies are government-owned, and their profits benefit the taxpayer. Not the British taxpayer, obviously

 

[JohnD]

That’s not how the Conservative govt operates.

It gives contracts out to those that pay it the most money…..there’s no consumer choice, just corruption.

I must remember to apply for another government ferry contract. I own no ferries and employ no mariners, but that's no obstacle.

The licensee of the local pub knows a government minister, so he's expecting a multi-million pound contract to supply hospital equipment

 

[Pat ex]

Why.

Put some idiot council/civil service lifer in charge, allow them to deliver nothing and constantly demand more budget or
create an organisation that has to compete to survive, has to deliver more with less and yes deliver profit back to shareholders

competition forces companies to innovate or die.

Things don't have to be profit motivated, just competitive.

Let us separate the ideological argument from the reality of business.

Some services that are voluntarily provided could be privatised, especially those with existing competition, e.g. Leisure, Libraries, etc. But the repercussions affect other non-voluntary services, e.g. health and education. For example, no LA provision of Leisure opportunities results in a lower standard of health especially among the poorest. Private libraries results again in lower literacy among the poorest.

For there to be competition there must be profit, otherwise the competition disappears into oblivion.

 

[motorbiking]

We've already discussed the water industry.

I must remember to apply for another government ferry contract. I own no ferries and employ no mariners, but that's no obstacle.

Sounds like P&O

and on the subject of water companies - we've discussed them before. You know my views. If the consumer has no choice there is no point to privatisation. There is a point to consolidating common services.

 

[JohnD]

We've already discussed the water industry.

We've already discussed the incompetence and damage caused by the Conservative government.

Do you mean you want to stop?

 

[ajohn]

Different police forces, councils etc don't need separate HR and IT functions.

A nurse I know had an experience recently that crops up from time to time. System broke down. IT contracted out. Result go back to paper for a week and then when sorted load it all up to the system. It took the contactors several days to turn up and were some distance away. No quick fix either. IT support can be one of the most rip off areas in existence. I've thrown 2 lots out in one place I have worked at as I happen to have the ability to judge aspects like that. The company decided to employ their own. 3 people, workforce total several hundred. I reckon they could have managed with one really but would need help at times from a more technical contractor. There is a catch there - that person is unlikely to want to clear the need for them.

Back to the nurse. The wards are seriously understaffed. The place that employed several hundred. HR looked after entirely by a level in the management tree on a departmental basis. You might say in some ways there was no HR. The same looked after health and safety. Later they introduced some training for people. This is really getting to a stage where people with specific functions are needed. A hospital employs far more people.

A manager a the place with several hundred happened to know the person who runs this sort of area for the B'ham QE. A lady and she can't see how this area can be run that way. Seems she has a huge department but I have no idea what huge means, just a lot more than just using managers. She's correct she couldn't but that doesn't mean she can't reduce her costs. She probably could as larger organisations usually have a certain feature. Too many people in some areas. Clearly in the NHS's case there aren't enough nurses and doctors, might even be short of porters. cleaners etc who are expected to work harder to cope. Use manufacturing term. These people are directs. They are directly involved in the "function". The rest are indirects. People put there by management which is why this area is hard to sort out and tends to accumulate too many people.

 

[blup]

One of the big arguments for privatising water companies was their ability to invest private sector capital and solve issues like leaking water mains. It's a myth that the private sector exists for any reason other than to make profit.

Blup

 

[Trazor]

Quite a Legacy indeed.

 

[ajohn]

Some services should never be profit motivated. Some services can never be profit motivated.

Fact is all need to be efficient which is an entirely different area than talking purely just about competitiveness.

One view of efficiency is unit cost and profit. Business needs to provide dividends, pay tax and accumulate money to advance but more usually that means debt. Their net worth is their share value including assets etc. There share value is seen as being important for them and the main drive is servicing share holders. A city dealer doesn't give two hoots about how much a CEO is paid and benefits etc as they are only concerned about profiting from share dealing. That is where the money is. The behaviour of share prices has it's interesting aspects. Looks like more money from nothing at times.

So say the definition of efficiency is min unit cost. Clearly a set up that doesn't pay dividends or tax will be cheaper.

Competitiveness doesn't really work in some areas as there isn't any really so regulators are thrown into the mix. More additional cost. Outside that cartels exist and even supermarkets arrange their shopping basket to show they are the cheapest - providing people buy the right thing. These aspects are a fact of life that nothing can be done about. Utilities are an entirely different area as is an outfit like BT, another utility really.