Heatslave 26/32 Burner/air issue

[Burnerman]

The slightest interference with the boiler exhaust will cause running problems with the burner box on.....you wouldn't believe how sensitive they are.
If the flue has now been attended to, I'd look at the inspection plate on the top of the boiler (white cover off) just to see if there's any obstruction there.
The only thing I can add is that some photocells are matched to a control box, but I can't comment if that is the case here. However, if you can keep the thing on by showing the photocell light from a torch, can the cell see the flame through the blast tube?
I do think your problems are all flue related and I would also check that the baffles above the burner are clean and correctly positioned.
John

 

[john975]

The slightest interference with the boiler exhaust will cause running problems with the burner box on.....you wouldn't believe how sensitive they are.
If the flue has now been attended to, I'd look at the inspection plate on the top of the boiler (white cover off) just to see if there's any obstruction there.
The only thing I can add is that some photocells are matched to a control box, but I can't comment if that is the case here. However, if you can keep the thing on by showing the photocell light from a torch, can the cell see the flame through the blast tube?
I do think your problems are all flue related and I would also check that the baffles above the burner are clean and correctly positioned.
John

there is no obstruction from top inspection plate(I had it off to check flue clearance. Blast tube is clear for photocel, you can see the flame if you look through the tube. Baffle above the burner I am unsure, plumber would have to check.

The burner cuts off even if removed from boiler and run. So surely that's not a flue issue?

 

[Agile]

This boiler was put in 8 years ago by a Worcester employed engineer,homer(not this plumber). its not had a service in 8 years. We got it serviced for the first time because it was tripping out. the boiler was fairly clean inside.

I am twice amazed to read this! First that the boiler has run for EIGHT years without being serviced. Oil boilers are particularly requiring regular servicing ( that's every year ) and if left running rich will deposit soot all over the inside which is a real pain to clear out.

Secondly, that you are so keen to save your money that you employ an engineer for cash in his spare time and you don't bother to ever get the boiler serviced.

I have to say that you seem to be the victim of your own desire to save money. Probably now employing a less than adequate engineer just because he is cheap.

If you wanted it sorted out properly then I expect that Worcester will do repairs using their own engineers! But that would cost you money!

Tony

 

[john975]

This boiler was put in 8 years ago by a Worcester employed engineer,homer(not this plumber). its not had a service in 8 years. We got it serviced for the first time because it was tripping out. the boiler was fairly clean inside.

I am twice amazed to read this! First that the boiler has run for EIGHT years without being serviced. Oil boilers are particularly requiring regular servicing ( that's every year ) and if left running rich will deposit soot all over the inside which is a real pain to clear out.

Secondly, that you are so keen to save your money that you employ an engineer for cash in his spare time and you don't bother to ever get the boiler serviced.

I have to say that you seem to be the victim of your own desire to save money. Probably now employing a less than adequate engineer just because he is cheap.

If you wanted it sorted out properly then I expect that Worcester will do repairs using their own engineers! But that would cost you money!

Tony

ok the boiler was new for 900 pound. the engineer is my uncle(btw he would not take any money for the install). Who trains people to fix/install boilers and is employed by WB. (I do not want to pull in a favour, am not a user). Boiler was not clogged up with soot. The boiler was installed with the intention to run into the ground. However this should be fixable.

so yes I can pull in a Worcester engineer and it will not cost me. but that's me pulling in a favour saving money and using someone.(I am more likely to call another engineer and pay them, costing even more money)

Constructive help would be gratefully received. And the other half would stop moaning about no hot water lol

 

[Burnerman]

The slightest interference with the boiler exhaust will cause running problems with the burner box on.....you wouldn't believe how sensitive they are.
If the flue has now been attended to, I'd look at the inspection plate on the top of the boiler (white cover off) just to see if there's any obstruction there.
The only thing I can add is that some photocells are matched to a control box, but I can't comment if that is the case here. However, if you can keep the thing on by showing the photocell light from a torch, can the cell see the flame through the blast tube?
I do think your problems are all flue related and I would also check that the baffles above the burner are clean and correctly positioned.
John

there is no obstruction from top inspection plate(I had it off to check flue clearance. Blast tube is clear for photocel, you can see the flame if you look through the tube. Baffle above the burner I am unsure, plumber would have to check.

The burner cuts off even if removed from boiler and run. So surely that's not a flue issue?

If the burner runs on a bench, then thats fine.....but if its just backed off from the boiler hole then you'll get a backlash of exhaust gas, if the flue ways are obstructed.
On the top of the boiler, underneath the white lid, there could be a baffle arrangement diagram. After all those years, expect loads of soot and sulphur grot to come out!
John

 

[john975]

The slightest interference with the boiler exhaust will cause running problems with the burner box on.....you wouldn't believe how sensitive they are.
If the flue has now been attended to, I'd look at the inspection plate on the top of the boiler (white cover off) just to see if there's any obstruction there.
The only thing I can add is that some photocells are matched to a control box, but I can't comment if that is the case here. However, if you can keep the thing on by showing the photocell light from a torch, can the cell see the flame through the blast tube?
I do think your problems are all flue related and I would also check that the baffles above the burner are clean and correctly positioned.
John

there is no obstruction from top inspection plate(I had it off to check flue clearance. Blast tube is clear for photocel, you can see the flame if you look through the tube. Baffle above the burner I am unsure, plumber would have to check.

The burner cuts off even if removed from boiler and run. So surely that's not a flue issue?

If the burner runs on a bench, then thats fine.....but if its just backed off from the boiler hole then you'll get a backlash of exhaust gas, if the flue ways are obstructed.
On the top of the boiler, underneath the white lid, there could be a baffle arrangement diagram. After all those years, expect loads of soot and sulphur grot to come out!
John

the guy pulled the burner right out away from the chamber. fired it and it lit then tripped. All he did was un-hook the burner from chamber then fire it up/request heat to test then it tripped out.

He originally gave it a service and cleaned it all out with hoover said it was not all that dirty considering. (I was not there). Exhaust has never stunk or had any black smoke in the 8 years we have had it or had any trip out issues until a month ago at that point we decided to get it serviced.

 

[Burnerman]

So.....if the photocell sees light from a torch or whatever, the burner keeps going ad infinitum?
John

 

[john975]

So.....if the photocell sees light from a torch or whatever, the burner keeps going ad infinitum?
John

lol just noticed your location. just drive too Scottish borders and you could fix it lol

well he tested it with a torch/room light twice for around 5 mins each time and it seemed to work. as soon as he put it in the photocell hole it cut out. at that point he cleaned the metal thing at the other side of the photocell with a wire brush. Then worked for a few hours(maybe by chance?). I turned it off then back on and it would not stay on.

 

[Burnerman]

Well at this point, it seems to be a photocell issue.....can you compare old with the new one? Often the identification is on the cable.
Logic says that its either the incorrect photocell, or its too short to poke through its hole, or its angled away from the burner flame somehow.
I don't know if this is relevant, but make sure cables to the electrodes aren't restricting the p/cells view.
I assume the blast tube is fitted correctly?
John

 

[Agile]

Well if your Uncle works for Worcester then surely you need to get him and ideally pay him so he is not doing you any favours.

What you last said indicates a photocell problem. Either it cannot see the flame or is not being recognised.

I don't know if they still are, but they used to be a cadmium sulphide cell in a glass envelope. They are not very precision types and the resistance tends to be very variable which is why they are so often changed and one comment above says that some have to be matched with the PCB.

The resistance is very high in the dark and reduces when exposed to light. I would be inclined to test one by added a resistance in parallel of perhaps 20k for a start.

Does anyone know why this ancient type were used for so long on oil boilers when modern silicon types have been available for a long while and have stable characteristics?

Tony

 

[john975]

I have just tried ...something... reset boiler 3 times each time its started up/fired and then cut out after 10-15 secs. Then reset and covered air intake at side of burner for 20 secs burner stay on(I assume it will be running rich when I do that). taken hand of still running after 10 mins..ill leave it on full see how long it runs. then power it down.

There is no number that I could see on old photo cell . ...length is correct . same length as old one. running the boiler since 13.00 still not cut out

 

[john975]

Well if your Uncle works for Worcester then surely you need to get him and ideally pay him so he is not doing you any favours.


Tony

Uncle will not take any money from me. And he is a good distance away. I could have got it serviced free as well but just does not sit rite with me.

 

[Agile]

If running rich the then flame will be slightly more orange. Less efficient and likely to soot up.

But if they are still cadmium sulphide type then I think their spectral response is higher in the low frequency end so will lower their resistance more to an orange flame.

Tony

 

[john975]

only restricted air for 20 secs or so then took hand off. ...its still running...can hear burner firing on and off as it gets to temp.

 

[john975]

I have just turned it off ...been running for over 30 mins rads are hot.

now turned it back on after a few mins. Requested heat after a few mins and fired up and running again, ill leave it running for a while again.