Hey, Anti-vaxxers. Be careful!

[IT Minion]

Still a 50% less chance of being hospitalised. And 50% less chance of dying

55% of people are double vaccinated
12% of those dying are people from that group.

You're both missing a big factor: Age.

Before vaccination something like 95-99% of serious cases were in the over 50s. The uptake in vaccination has been very high for the over 50s and vulnerable groups (phase 1 of the vaccination program). In effect you can use the fact people are double vaccinated as a proxy for age/risk.

If the Vaccine was worthless you wouldn't see even rates of people being hospitalised with and without vaccination, you'd see the huge overwhelming majority of cases in the vaccinated population.

 

[Ihavenojob]

Your point is?

Vaccinations will not make you immune.

 

[Ihavenojob]

And 50% less chance of dying.

No, you WILL die, we all will.

 

[Munroast]

You're both missing a big factor: Age.

Before vaccination something like 95-99% of serious cases were in the over 50s. The uptake in vaccination has been very high for the over 50s and vulnerable groups (phase 1 of the vaccination program). In effect you can use the fact people are double vaccinated as a proxy for age/risk.

If the Vaccine was worthless you wouldn't see even rates of people being hospitalised with and without vaccination, you'd see the huge overwhelming majority of cases in the vaccinated population.

I havn't seen any age related data concerning the recent deaths, do you have it ?

I'm not saying the vaccine isn't working, it just seems to be a lot less effective than, I had expected may be 1:500 from the double jabbed, not 1:3

I have been letting my guard down of late, been up to edinburgh on the train 4 weeks in a row, eating out mingling with others, getting back to normal - I'm now thinking of stopping that again, may be even reverting back to disinfecting the shopping from the supermarket.

this is a very very long way from being over.

 

[JohnD]

Vaccinations will not make you immune.

Having brakes on your car does not mean that you will never crash.

Not having brakes, however....

 

[Ihavenojob]

Not having brakes, however....

Does not mean you will ever crash. Your point is ? Sh!t happens.

 

[ajohn]

They have established facts, The new bug is more infective. Estimates range from 40 to 60% depending on who spouts them. it's probably too early for all to agree.

More chance of hospitalisation.

People keep rattling on about age. Death increases with age but add this to your thoughts. Covid admissions in England

 

[sxturbo]

I think the government said restrictions easing will be dependent on hospital admissions not ammount of cases.

 

[ajohn]

The positive testing rates Pillar 2 look just like they did as the last wave started to build up. Pillar 1 - hospital testing on admission not so marked. Many of the increases in Pillar 2 are in the young. As always it takes a while to spread up the age groups. That's their problem at the moment.

Worth noting that there were a lot of 30 year olds in during the last wave. This is why they keep lowering the age where people can get vaccinated. Kids will be next if not included already. Other countries are doing it. They hope it will reduce the time where they can infect others.

 

[ajohn]

Oh and new one is more likely to put people in hospital.

Vaccine doesn't make people immune. No excuse. It readies the immune system to start fighting what ever it is a lot sooner. This is why they usually reduce the period where people can infect others. Far too early to tell with this one. It looks like people don't need to be exposed to much of it.

TBH I think we need a new norm. It might go wear a mask when out of one's abode. Eating or drinking etc remove it usual controls, best not too close to strangers etc. Hand sanitiser. Maybe masks just when there are people walking about in numbers - shopping areas, queues etc.

Afraid I am 100% sure that this approach would have seriously reduced lock down periods. Other countries have done it but usually when it's too late. That's what happens here - too late every time. All down to asymptotics. There is a need to cut down their effects on the outcome. There are way too many of them. Sick joke - the fact that the new one seems to be more capable of making people more aware that they have it might help but what about the next variant.

They have mentioned retaining masks on transport but there isn't much evidence that area is a major source. Suppose it's as lower % of the population use it a lot. China info suggests masks on those would have allowed them to just continue to be used pretty quickly when levels get problematic.

 

[jeds]

TBH I think we need a new norm. It might go wear a mask when out of one's abode. Eating or drinking etc remove it usual controls, best not too close to strangers etc. Hand sanitiser. Maybe masks just when there are people walking about in numbers - shopping areas, queues etc.

If you mean a general norm going forward then I definitely won't be joining in. Once the younger generations have had the chance of a vaccine it's all for one as far as I'm concerned. Provisions will have to be made for the handful that can't have the vaccine but if people die because of choosing not to have it, that's their problem. Don't come crying. Fortunately the youngsters appear to have the intelligence to work it out and are taking up the vaccine in good numbers.

 

[Notch7]

The more people vaccinated the less the infection spreads.

The less the infection spreads the lower the opportunity for Virus to mutate.


The big concern is a variant that is vaccine resistant and we are back at the beginning.


Hence why govt are keen to jab anything that is breathing

 

[JohnD]

Vaccinations will not make you immune.

However, it greatly reduces the risk of illness, and of serious illness, and of death, and of passing on the infection.

All of which are of enormous benefit, to the vaccinated person; to other potential sufferers; to the health service, and to society as a whole.

Your repeated claim is clearly intended to suggest that vaccination conveys no benefit, which is of course nonsense.

 

[ajohn]

I fail to understand why people don't realise if things just go back to how they were everybody will catch it. Just a matter of time. People seem to think it will die away some how or the other. Suppose it might. You need to ask yourself how it got here in the first place. It isn't going to go away and there will be more mutations.

So if people want a normal life it just isn't possible without some changes to provide more certainty..

Look forward to a 3rd wave. We are certainly at the start of one. The testing shows that and people do know how rapidly it can develop. Sure vaccine should improve things but it is a should as there is no idea how well yet and we now have a variant that is more harmful. There is no reason why it shouldn't mutate to something worse that even reduces the effectiveness of the vaccine even further. So risk that.

Personally I think they have concentrated too much on keeping the economy going for a long a period as possible. It's been NHS can just cope. They have freely admitted that they didn't account for asymptotics. I'm just saying they should have thought on the lines of things they could do to just allow things to carry on as closely a possible to the norm. Given PPE shortages masks were not really an option when it started especially for the public. That is not true and hasn't been for some time now.

 

[Ihavenojob]

Your repeated claim is clearly intended to suggest that vaccination conveys no benefit, which is of course nonsense.

Where did I say they are of no benefit ? More made up sh!t from the forum bot.