House in France under Renovation

[mointainwalker]

@lostinfens

The reason there are so many decaying old houses has a lot to do with the French system of forced inheritance i.e. the inheritance is divided proportionally over surviving blood-relatives. Not forgetting the fact that lots of French have grown up in old draughty houses and want a nice warm modern one !

Places that were inherited maybe twenty or so years ago when they had little value are now owned by maybe 10 or 12 people, some of whom may have moved to other parts of France.

Anyone therefore interested in buying has to contact - and convince - all of these people to get their signature.

Then the usual problem crops up , that people who over the years said the old place wasn't worth paying taxes on, suddely start saying it's worth more that the potential purchaser is offering.

If you go back further, problems become worse. Just opposite me is a small house with three-floors, unoccupied. The difficult thing here is, over a lot of years ownership has spread and now each of the three floors is owned by ( a ) different person(s) in different families so it will likely remain vacant.

Obviously if something major happens to the roof or a wall and someone doesn't want to pay, the place can become a ruin within a couple of years.

This is in an area where ruins now fetch E 1,000/m2 floor-area

People have often told me that outsiders/foreigners have an advantage buying in small communities because there is then no feeling that Family X, whose grandfather was always suspected of theft/insults/ whatever is getting a good deal at the expense of Family Y

 

[totoisacat]

yes we bought a flat in SW France...a gift. Locals all tried to knock down the seller on price. I knew as they did that they were getting a bargain so offerd to pay whatever they thought was a fair price. Since the seller was inheriting the property and wasn't from the area she wasn't prepared to give in to the locals demands to sell at a fair price or sell to a local. They were basically trying to rip her off! My wife is French so the lingo was no problem and a year later we bought it. The flat could have been sold for at least twice the original asking price the day after purchase so the locals who were being 'greedy' didn't get any sympathy from us. Indeed we received a call day after completion asking us to sell to a local! if only they had offreed a fair price they would have deserved it.
Anyway did the place up...as tory in itself.
Re Prices in france for materilas: the English love to moan about French prices....they are no more than in UK and indeed if you know where to go cheaper with mot things!
One reason places in rural France are cheap is that there isn't work ofr locals so no demand for expensive housing that only mniddle classes can afford. However prices have gone up throughout France and if you look in popular areas, prices are not cheap. Though if you want a rural retreat you can still find a bargain.
Lifestyle in France knocks England for six..if you can find the work there...am still working on it but in the meantime have sold up main home and bought two places i Uk to do up.....a lifechanging experience as they say.....

 

[mointainwalker]

"Re Prices in france for materilas: the English love to moan about French prices....they are no more than in UK and indeed if you know where to go cheaper with mot things!

Can't agree with that.

Please tell me two major materials that are cheaper in France ( excepting of course such things as sand from a local quarry) and I would certainly categorise myself as someone who knows where to go/.

 

[totoisacat]

Blimey that was quick!
When i was there 3 years ago i din't find prices any more than uK. I cannot quote prices as am not there at present but i guess the rate of exchange has made a noticeable difference. I did buy a drill for 15 euro, but admittedly it was made in China. Petrol was cheaper last time i went...and food and wine i in many places but as with the UK it depends where you live and your knowledge of the area. One thing i do know is that PAINT is an incredibly high price in France and generally usless fom DIY places. You will pay 40 euros for 2.5 litres. Even Dulux sell at exhorbitant prices and their products are sub UK stanadard. There is one very good French paint though: Tollans which is superb paint but pricey. They have their own outlets. No more than DIY paint outlets like Mr Bricolage etc but far better

 

[lostinfens]

I found food in france very expensive & supermarket veg poor quality. Didn't have the time to find local markets. Building mats I was led to believe were costly & diesel was similar to here. Hourly rates are certainly more expensive than over here.
On the lifestyle front, there was an article in the Sun Times about the return of a lot of expats etc, but it's horses for courses I suppose.
Property in La Creuse is still cheap as chips & abundant though.

 

[mointainwalker]

".. Petrol was cheaper last time i went...and food and wine i in many places

Food and supermarkets are much more expensive and the range of products is much less extensive with the exception of the fresh fish counter ( and I live many hundreds of miles inland) and the other comments you make support the notion that bulding materials prices are much higher here.


Fuel costs will swing due to the relative strengths of GBP/Euro/USD. I pay 19.6% VAT on my heating oil whereas it is only 5.5% in UK.

However very happy being here with a stunning renovation project that would just not have been available in UK.

 

[RedHerring2]

Interesting comments about prices and quality,
I find the prices, say for fruit & veg are extremely variable, e.g ,in season water melons are two a' penny (well, two for a Euro), but out of season, hard to find.
That seems to be one of the major difference; the "food miles". Practically all fish is locally caught, nearly all meat is locally reared and veg rarely travels further than from Spain, Holland, Belgium, etc.
Also, it seems that locally grown fruit/veg is not subject to the same rigorous criteria, e.g. misshapen, small, still covered in soil, etc.

Of all the friends we've made so far the majority work at being partly self-sufficient with at least some fruit & veg.
And they all delight in sharing their produce. Apples, figs, walnuts, pears, damsons, plums, lettuce, carrots, etc and the occasional game bird are presented by neighbours. Another neighbour told us to help ourselves to peas and beans from his fields last year. Unfortunately the drought beat us to it.

Diesel is quite a bit cheaper, Petrol is comparitive but diesel is cheaper than petrol in France. I think the last time I filled up on diesel in France it was €75. Here it's nearly £100.

Council tax is way cheaper, granted we're not in the house yet, but we're paying about €120 bi-annually, I think, for 2¼ hectares.
Electric is, I think about €30/month, water about the same. no gas, just bottled gas and one 16kg bottle will last all summer. Heating will be locally sourced wood.

Building materials also variable. Timber same but better quality. Complete bathroom suites cheaper. Complete kitchens cheaper.

One of the most noticable differences is when going to a BM. The staff greet you with a handshake!

 

[totoisacat]

At the end of the day there are numerous costs-some daily consumables (food, gas etc) and others like housing. If one can afford to sell up and go to live in France you will be able to retain enough to cover yourself for any minor changes in living costs.
Food depends on where you are in France. The markets for instance in some areas go far beyond any in the UK be they farm based local produce ones in rural areas or the well overpriced town markets. The French produce beats UK generally. In supermarkets it depends on the location. As someone noted fish section is better in France generally and cheaper: seems to be a cultural thing to enjoy more fish. Our place is in SW nr Biarritz and there are local markets as well as supermarkets and being close to Spain a lot of Spanish produce.
Bread is more limiting in terms of choice in a French boulangerie compared to a UK supermarket but there is no comparison in terms of quality. French boulangerie bread is the best, and unike the Brits a French person will travel to their favourite-and there is a great deal of choice.My wife's nephew has been training to be a baker in France and the course is 5 years-he has just become a manger in one in The Loire area.
When i renovated my flat the greatest benefit is that you are not paying out on labour so you save a fortune and can spoil yourself with some decent fittings etc. What French expertise i did use was superb and cheaper than UK-plummer and electrician, but the ones i was initially recommended by neighbours and friends there weren't. same can happen in UK. You have to search and not necessarily go for recommended onesfrom people who don't really know about the skills they are employing.

 

[totoisacat]

Just watched re run of episode that was filmed in 2003/4 where a couple take on a delapidated old manor house-maison de maitre-in le Limousin region. Quite unbelievable what thye achieved-note they used the tile 'clips' refererred to earier in this thread. They bought about 15000 tiles (something like that) and they came from China!
Watching has put my current issues into some perspective...

 

[heliox]

Hi enjoyed your postings and detailed log. Have you finished? would like to see the finished article?

also what span is the room with the cruck truss frames in? I have a very very similar setup and would love to know the wallplate, purlin and rafter sizes you used?

I think, wall plate 4x2, purlins 8x3 and rafters 4x2?

Hope you finished all o.k?

 

[mointainwalker]

@heliox

Would help if you named person you are talking to.

 

[RedHerring2]

Sorry Heliox, I've only just seen your post.

Project blog continued here:
//www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=237971

I can't remember sizes of timber that well 'cos it was a good while ago.
Wall Plate was something like 150 X 50,
Room span was 5.5 M
Purlin was something like 250 or 225 X 50, or maybe 75.
Rafters were something like 72 X 58, I know, an odd size but they were cheaper than 75 X 50, and slightly chunkier.

I had a slight problem with copper pipe last summer, so hopefully we'll be in next summer.

 

[seymourjames]

Looks like many of us have had the same experience - a once in a lifetime affair for me at least - Renovating a French property

Having finally finished the project 18 months ago and lived in the houses it is now on offer here Property For Sale In France.

 

[1Thomas]

I am seeing this thread in 2019, but I can't access the photos. Is there any way this is possible please ? Big Thanks.