How do you shut the water for the cold tank?

[spader]

I think you have a hot water cylinder ,with an immersion heater element in it ,and that does not need another tank in the loft.

Yes, that's what I thought too.

 

[spader]

That blue valve is a gate valve on the rising main and should shut the water to the Cold Cistern ball valve but if it doesn't stop the water it means it's broken and needs replaced. They do have a habit of seizing up over long periods of non use and then the stem snaps inside when they're tried.

The one in the kitchen will have seized too by the sounds of it.

Shut off the mains outside (bottom of the garden path/driveway/pavement) and make sure the cistern stops filling, take that valve off and replace it with a lever valve. Do the one in the kitchen at the same time.

You are right. Thank you Rab. The blue valve worked for stopping the fillin water. It had to be turned real hard (I was worried if it will snap while turning to close really hard, but it didn't thankfully), and it still leaks some drops after closing. As you said, the valve seems have worn out. But it is the right valve, and it needs replacement for working fully.

Now the water kind of stopped coming into the tank (there are drips but it will take ages to fill the tank to the overflow pipe level), so I must try replacing the float valve in the tank.

 

[Madrab]

It's an old mains gate valve, hence the blue wheel head on it, they're quite rare as normal jumper'd/wahsered stop taps have been about a long time. Only every seen it once before.

Just be careful, they tend to snap when closed and trying to re-open, because it takes so much effort to close properly it jams the gate in the bottom of the channel.

 

[spader]

It's an old mains gate valve, hence the blue wheel head on it, they're quite rare as normal jumper'd/wahsered stop taps have been about a long time. Only every seen it once before.

Just be careful, they tend to snap when closed and trying to re-open, because it takes so much effort to close properly it jams the gate in the bottom of the channel.

Yeah, I would like to replace it safely. But then I must close the same valve at the mains rising pipe. This will be tricky because it is hidden under the worktop sink, I could hardly reach the valve from the kitchen floor stretching my arm through the cupboard door, and couldn't apply my best force as I did with the cold tank valve. I might have to dismantle the worktop and the cupboards panels to get access to the valve. This house is about 60-70 years old I think that's 1950s -1940s.

I must also replace the float valve in the cold tank, as it was leaking into the overflow pipe which started the whole saga.

 

[Madrab]

Yeah, I would like to replace it safely. But then I must close the same valve at the mains rising pipe. This will be tricky because it is hidden under the worktop sink, I could hardly reach the valve from the kitchen floor stretching my arm through the cupboard door, and couldn't apply my best force as I did with the cold tank valve. I might have to dismantle the worktop and the cupboards panels to get access to the valve. This house is about 60-70 years old I think that's 1950s -1940s.

I must also replace the float valve in the cold tank, as it was leaking into the overflow pipe which started the whole saga.

Shut off the mains outside (bottom of the garden path/driveway/pavement) and make sure the cistern stops filling, take that valve off and replace it with a lever valve. then you can do the one in the kitchen at the same time.

 

[spader]

" Madrab said:
Shut off the mains outside (bottom of the garden path/driveway/pavement) and make sure the cistern stops filling, take that valve off and replace it with a lever valve. then you can do the one in the kitchen at the same time. "

This might be problem. I recall a few year ago what the next door neighbour told me. He said that when these houses were being built back in the 1940s - 1950s, the builders wanted to save the cost as much as possible, and they only provided 1x mains water stop cock for 4x houses in the street. So, to shut the mains rising water off if any water work needing to be done in the house, one has to let the other 3x houses know about it.

I was in disbelief on what I heard and was hoping that I misheard it, but it is likely to be true, in which case will make things awkward for the gate valves replacement for this house?

 

[spader]

I am hoping the gate valve under the kitchen sink worktop near the incoming mains rising pipe is the one which can stop the water to the cold water tank. If it is not, it really will become impossible to replace the worn gate valve without shutting the mains water stopcock in the street, which will shut water for to 3x other houses in the street. I am not even sure which 3x houses are on the mains stop valve. I must talk to the neighbor about it.

 

[Madrab]

All you need to do is contact your water transporter and get them out to check, just tell them you have a seized stop tap and a failed ball valve that keeps running and you cant find the outside tap (toby), they'll come out and find it and make sure it works and let you know.

The valve under the sink will probably be a mains stop tap rather than a gate valve but if it's locked up and hasn't been used in years then it may not budge ... penetrating oil may be your friend here (WD40). Certainly good to talk to the neighbours as you may need to shut the water off for a period to replace the mains tap, always good to get ahead with that one.

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Adding to @Madrab s post- do the above and sort out the undersink stoptap FIRST- once that's fixed you can do the internal work without annoying the neighbours.
If (and you are likely correct) you do need to dismantle kitchen units, do that before you call the water board and make sure you've got everything you need to sort the stoptap out so you minimize disruption for your neighbours.

 

[spader]

Great advice and info. Thanks.

 

[SandyLyon]

Good advice from “oldbutnotdead” regarding tackling the main isolation valve but be aware that unless it’s been altered, there’s a good chance that the incoming main could be lead with the original isolation valve “sweated” onto the lead pipe.

Best to strip out and expose what’s what, you may need a plumber to work on any lead pipe if indeed there is any.

 

[spader]

Good advice from “oldbutnotdead” regarding tackling the main isolation valve but be aware that unless it’s been altered, there’s a good chance that the incoming main could be lead with the original isolation valve “sweated” onto the lead pipe.

Best to strip out and expose what’s what, you may need a plumber to work on any lead pipe if indeed there is any.

Do you mean the incoming mains pipe gate valve can make the other pipes valves leaking? Actually I am kind of worried of the possibilty the incoming mains pipe gate valve itself could start leaking when turning to close it. It looks it had never been turned or moved for 50 years. The pipe and gate valve all look rusty as well.

My DIY plumbing experience is limited to haivng installed the outside tap and replaced sink trap, so it is a bit apprehensive job actually. Will try to get photo of the incoming mains gate valve.

 

[Madrab]

Pop a couple of pics of it onto the post and we may be able to advise better. If you're at all worried about the mains stop tap then don't touch it until you know you can isolate it from outside first.

 

[spader]

Here are the photos for the incoming mains gate valve. The pipe diverts to the right to the kitchen mains tap, and also goes up to the cold tank in the loft.

2x of the pipes beside the mains incoming tap are probably the cold tank in the loft outgoing taps to the hot immersion boiler, washing machine, and downstairs shower room?

The old immersion boiler is wrapped in the thick vinyl cover. Water fills in and goes out ok, but the immersion heating element has not been working for years. Needs replacement too.

 

[spader]

Pop a couple of pics of it onto the post and we may be able to advise better. If you're at all worried about the mains stop tap then don't touch it until you know you can isolate it from outside first.

Great idea. Yes, I agree that we must know where the outside stop valve is in the street accurately in case the incoming mains gate valve fails.