How should a new EV charger be connected (Ed.)

[SUNRAY]

What would you suggest ?

If I had to find such a route I'd be looking above the ceiling or if it's a suspended floor.

 

[Murdochcat]

Personally I'd go for the very mormal method of picking up at the meter box.

Despite what others say, CU's IP rated for outdoor use do exist from very reputable manufacturers and many many thousands of them are in use for the purpose.

I quite agree but often you don’t want a labelled CU on the front of your house

 

[SUNRAY]

I quite agree but often you don’t want a labelled CU on the front of your house

Probably no more ugly than the EV point.
Or do a decent job and add an enclosure, such as a meter box to match the existing to take the CU and EV point.

 

[JohnW2]

I quite agree but often you don’t want a labelled CU on the front of your house

What do you mean by "a labelled CU"?

 

[flameport]

Are you saying manufacturers lie?

The enclosure will be suitable but the devices in it will not be.

The devices in it will need to be pollution degree 3 or above to be used in an outdoor enclosure.
Those made for consumer units are not.

While such things do exist, they are made to BSEN60947-2, and they are also intended for use by what is defined in BS7671 as 'skilled persons' which is entirely out of the scope of a domestic installation.

 

[JohnW2]

The enclosure will be suitable but the devices in it will not be. .... The devices in it will need to be pollution degree 3 or above to be used in an outdoor enclosure.
Those made for consumer units are not.

I must admit that "pollution degree 3" is a new one on me, so I've had to 'look it up' From what I can see, it appears to relates to (amongst other things) "electrical equipment ion unheated rooms". Is that correct?

Does that mean that all the CUs and switchgear and, indeed,electrical accessories in general in garages etc. (and sometimes other outhouses) are "unacceptable"?

 

[SUNRAY]

I must admit that "pollution degree 3" is a new one on me, so I've had to 'look it up' From what I can see, it appears to relates to (amongst other things) "electrical equipment ion unheated rooms". Is that correct?

Does that mean that all the CUs and switchgear and, indeed,electrical accessories in general in garages etc. (and sometimes other outhouses) are "unacceptable"?

Thank you.
And just to mention I have looked at a number of reputable manufacturers documentation/publicity material and AFAICS they seem to indicate 'standard' CU components are suitable for use in sealed enclosures. I'm sure they would have been reigned in if they are wrong.

 

[JohnW2]

Thank you. And just to mention I have looked at a number of reputable manufacturers documentation/publicity material and AFAICS they seem to indicate 'standard' CU components are suitable for use in sealed enclosures. I'm sure they would have been reigned in if they are wrong.

The enclosures in question are usually IP65, and I'm not clear as to what type of "pollution" would get into that from outside to have any effect on the devices within the enclosure.

I'd be interested to know whether anyone here has heard of "pollution degree 3"

 

[SUNRAY]

The enclosures in question are usually IP65, and I'm not clear as to what type of "pollution" would get into that from outside to have any effect on the devices within the enclosure.

I'd be interested to know whether anyone here has heard of "pollution degree 3"

Yes, I was asked to build control panels for petrol stations but a very quick (and I do mean very quick) look at requirements put me right out of the equasion as I had to be certified or qualified (see EDIT) in some way. However from that I found that any conponents in outdoor electrical equipment had to be pollution degree 4 (not sure if that was specific to licensed premises. The numbers 1-4 are not progressive strengths) due to the potential of condensation. The only time I have knowingly used anything other that pollution degree 2 was a chilled wharehouse where pollution degree 3 was specified.

EDIT: the term I was looking for was accreditation

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, I was asked to build control panels for petrol stations but a very quick (and I do mean very quick) look at requirements put me right out of the equasion as I had to be certified or qualified in some way. However from that I found that any conponents in outdoor electrical equipment had to be pollution degree 4 (not sure if that was specific to licensed premises. The numbers 1-4 are not progressive strengths) due to the potential of condensation. The only time I have knowingly used anything other that pollution degree 2 was a chilled wharehouse where pollution degree 3 was specified.

Interesting. As I said, I'd never heard of such things until flameport mentioned them - but, when I started reading, it appeared thata requirement for 'pollution degree 3'might apply to any 'unheated room' - hence presumably including the likes of garages.

 

[SUNRAY]

The thing that really interests me is why all of a sudden 'pollution degree' has suddenly been raised as it applies to every electrical item.

 

[flameport]

Does that mean that all the CUs and switchgear and, indeed,electrical accessories in general in garages etc. (and sometimes other outhouses) are "unacceptable"?

Probably.
Just because things are done or have been done for ever doesn't make them correct or valid.

I'm not clear as to what type of "pollution" would get into that from outside to have any effect on the devices within the enclosure.

The 'outdoor' consumer units have an openable door so that the devices within can be accessed. Opening it will expose the devices inside to whatever environment it is installed in.
Then there is the question of whether the end users of it will close that door properly or at all.

No IP rating will change the extremes of temperature that something outside will be exposed to.

why all of a sudden 'pollution degree' has suddenly been raised as it applies to every electrical item.

Until the recent bandwagon of EV charging companies, installing a consumer unit on the outside wall of a house wasn't generally a thing that happened.
Neither were other dubious practices such as shoehorning switchgear into meter cabinets and making live connections to tails using line taps.

 

[SUNRAY]

why all of a sudden 'pollution degree' has suddenly been raised as it applies to every electrical item.

...Until the recent bandwagon of EV charging companies, installing a consumer unit on the outside wall of a house wasn't generally a thing that happened.
Neither were other dubious practices such as shoehorning switchgear into meter cabinets and making live connections to tails using line taps.

This applies to every electrical component/accessory, not just EV charging

 

[JohnW2]

Probably. Just because things are done or have been done for ever doesn't make them correct or valid.

As others have observed, it just seemed surprising that this issue (alleged 'requirement') in relation to "pollution degree" should suddenly be raised - something which I had never heard of, that I very much doubt that many electricians have heard of and which appears not to be mentioned in BS7671 - particularly since (as your "probably" seems to agree) it seems that it has always applied to electrical items in such places as garages and outhouses, and probably other places.

The 'outdoor' consumer units have an openable door so that the devices within can be accessed. Opening it will expose the devices inside to whatever environment it is installed in.

Despite the reading I have now done, I have yet to really work out what sort of 'pollution ('conductive' or 'non-conductive which becomes conductive in the presence of condensation'). Are we talking about airborne pollution and, if so, why is this not as much an issue inside a building (assuming it is not hermetically-sealed) as it is outdoors?