13A socket as EV charger

[Swwils]

I think either a proprietary EV charger or the 13a socket with 6mm t+e would satisfy the planning permission element.

My question is purely focused on if the EV section of the electrical regs apply to the 13a socket.

Tricky one isn't it; will most likely get a charge point with the correct RCD and fault protection built in. Don't fancy charging in the garage really!

 

[JohnW2]

I think either a proprietary EV charger or the 13a socket with 6mm t+e would satisfy the planning permission element. ... My question is purely focused on if the EV section of the electrical regs apply to the 13a socket.

I would have thought that the 'EV section of the electrical regs' applies to anything to be used for EV charging (regardless of what accessories are used), doesn't it?

Kind Regards, John

 

[333rocky333]

Is it one of the Elusive sockets marked suitable for Ev charging, that most people have yet to have seen

 

[Risteard]

I would have thought that the 'EV section of the electrical regs' applies to anything to be used for EV charging (regardless of what accessories are used), doesn't it?

Kind Regards, John

Yes, it does.

 

[Risteard]

Is it one of the Elusive sockets marked suitable for Ev charging, that most people have yet to have seen

They do exist, but Mode 1 charging is to be deprecated. Mode 2 is almost as poor.

Mode 3 charging is what should be sought for home charging, and generally for workplace charging too.

 

[ericmark]

It seems we are not talking about electrics but the use of English. In my converted garage I have two electric vehicles, an ebike and a mobility scooter. I know that is not what we normally consider as an EV but it is hard to see how one could force the builder to install the charging pod for a car which clearly they don't know what it will be.

But there does seem to be one problem with the installation, use of a common RCD for car charging and other items, it would be interesting to hear what type of RCD is installed.

 

[JohnW2]

It seems we are not talking about electrics but the use of English. In my converted garage I have two electric vehicles, an ebike and a mobility scooter. I know that is not what we normally consider as an EV but it is hard to see how one could force the builder to install the charging pod for a car which clearly they don't know what it will be.

Whilst we clearly are talking amount vthe meaning/definition of terminology, I would suspect that the term "EV Charger Point" (which is what the seller apparently said that the house would have) has come to have a 'generally accepted meaning'. Having said that, the OP's issues/questions would, of course, not have arisen had the detailed nature of this 'charging point' been described explicitly.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Swwils]

The type of RCD is a bit beyond my knowledge, but to me it looks like it is grouped with the rest of one floor of the house and is a AC type as it just has a sine wave in a box on it, don't think I have any RCBO at all it's just a dual RCD board.

The brochure called it a "EV charge point" but the electrical plans listed single 13A socket for veichle charging run in 6mm T+E a meter or so from the CU to facilitate upgrade to fast charger in future - which I am fine with. Just trying to ascertain if the current arrangement is actually suitable for EV charging, I definitely would not want to introduce any safety issue by using it.

 

[ericmark]

For car charging I have not seen any charger that will work safely with a type AC

RCD all seem to need type A

or better.

There is some debate however, a RCD with a TN system as secondary protection, so if RCD was frozen due to fault with car charger, it would need a second fault before anyone would not be protected by the RCD, and with many of the car chargers a fault is likely to mean more than 6 mA of DC flows so it would auto disconnect anyway.

The type B RCD

is not cheap at around £120 each, and they are normally two module wide, so to fit one just for car charging would need a consumer unit that takes 3 RCD's and it is not required with a lot of the charging points. So rather expensive for some thing that may be never used.

So it would likely need the RCD changing when a charging point is fitted, but yes the outlet can be used to charge a car, but in the main the chargers monitor power used by the house and adjust charge rate to suit, so it will not blow the main incoming fuse, so the whole exercise of fitting a 13 amp socket to be upgraded seems rather pointless.

 

[winston1]

I would have thought a small solar panel on roof, so if you can't get home, you can leave car and collect next day.

A "small" solar panel will do very little. One panel of the type seen on houses gives around 250 watt in bright sunlight. Overnight there is no sunlight anyway so I think your chances of collecting it the next day are slim without a tow truck.

 

[Swwils]

Interesting thanks, I can see why dc flow could blind an RCD. Doesn't sound ideal at all.

Maybe some kind of vehicle you can power with your legs would be better!

 

[Risteard]

The type of RCD is a bit beyond my knowledge, but to me it looks like it is grouped with the rest of one floor of the house and is a AC type as it just has a sine wave in a box on it, don't think I have any RCBO at all it's just a dual RCD board.

The brochure called it a "EV charge point" but the electrical plans listed single 13A socket for veichle charging run in 6mm T+E a meter or so from the CU to facilitate upgrade to fast charger in future - which I am fine with. Just trying to ascertain if the current arrangement is actually suitable for EV charging, I definitely would not want to introduce any safety issue by using it.

Not only is a Type AC RCD prohibited for EV charging, it is also the case that each EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment, i.e. chargepoint) must have its own dedicated RCD not shared with any other circuit or any other EVSE. It must also break all live conductors. There are numerous other requirements for EVSE installations.

 

[Risteard]

The type B RCD

is not cheap at around £120 each, and they are normally two module wide, so to fit one just for car charging would need a consumer unit that takes 3 RCD's and it is not required with a lot of the charging points. So rather expensive for some thing that may be never used.

Most Type B RCCBs I have come across are actually four module.

 

[davelx]

A type A RCD is ok so long as the charger incorporates 6mA DC protection. My charger has both the Type A RCD and the DC protection built in.

 

[ericmark]

A type A RCD is ok so long as the charger incorporates 6mA DC protection. My charger has both the Type A RCD and the DC protection built in.

Having the RCD built in is great if not fed from an RCD feeding other things in the CU, but if it is fed from an RCD in the CU which also feeds other items, the that RCD also needs to be type A, when I collected the parts to fit my new CU I looked at the RCBO's and large writing it said Type B I was surprised as expected type A, but thought Oh that's good, only after it had all been fitted did I realise it was curve B type AC, I ordered some type A to replace them, but 4 months latter still not arrived so cancelled the order.

However as a result I can understand when the wrong type are fitted, easy mistake to make, but the place where I would feed an EV there is only one FCU at moment fed from that RCBO, so even if type AC would not really be worried, as not feeding anything else. And it is the same with other items fed from the board, the chance that some thing is drawing DC at the same time as a fault should trip the RCD when there at 14 supplying the house is remote. But that would not be the case if only 2 supplied the house.