illegal fugee makes a mint

[Freddie]

can't get up my guts are aching.

Then i appologise for my earlier remark but how do you apply the 2 rules to mistreating POW and genocide?---these people are out of the war and war zone

Well that will depend in part on your definition of "war" and "war zone", but it will also depend on the definition on the part of the combatants as well. Just to bring up an extreme, Guantanamo bay is almost not on the planet according to the USA government.

Are you saying Bush and Blair's romantic attempt at being world leaders is a war ?

 

[Softus]

What were you saying to Freddie about posting abuse? If you can't face me head-on in a debate - please ignore my posts.

Good one joe. Head on? Don't make me laugh. You haven't stuck to a single point since you turned 8.

What are you blathering about, man?

Go to relevant topic, click things with mouse, read words with eyes, process with brain, then you'll understand.

 

[joe-90]

What were you saying to Freddie about posting abuse? If you can't face me head-on in a debate - please ignore my posts.

Good one joe. Head on? Don't make me laugh. You haven't stuck to a single point since you turned 8.

What are you blathering about, man?

Go to relevant topic, click things with mouse, read words with eyes, process with brain, then you'll understand.

What relevant topic would that be?

Will you answer this question please?

"Are you happy for fraudsters from afar to enter this country, tell lies, and make multiple claims for asylum in order to defraud the British people?"


If you are happy about it - please explain why.

If you are not happy about it - please explain how you would rectify the problem.


Let's have an abuse-free answer if you don't mind.

Thank you.


joe

 

[Softus]

Will you answer this question please?

"Are you happy for fraudsters from afar to enter this country, tell lies, and make multiple claims for asylum in order to defraud the British people?"

There is no short answer, because your question is loaded with presumptions, but my answer is:

I particularly don't like fraudsters, e.g. I don't like anyone making multiple claims.
I do, generally, like honest people.
I do, generally, like people from afar.
I don't mind honest people from afar entering this country.
I don't mind honest people from afar entering this country and living here.

I haven't seen any evidence to show that every asylum seeker is a fraudster. I know that some of them are, because some get prosecuted and/or deported. I also know that the chappies who offer to tarmac my drive reek of dishonesty, but I don't assume that all Irish people are therefore dishonest. I have an open mind, which means that I assume everyone is innocent until shown otherwise, on an individual basis, not a racial, religious or circumstancial one.

I perceive that you want to goad me into saying that I don't like being robbed, which is true, and that there is an immigration problem, which is also true, but my saying so doesn't prove anything, let alone prove a point that we should close the boders. I don't believe that our government is doing enough to (a) estimate the size of the problem and (b) address it, but nobody on this topic, me included, has attempted to understand or explain the economical effect of, for example, turning away cheap labour.

Now then - if you want to have a reasoned discussion, it would be helpful to know which of my statements you align with, and which you don't - then we'll know where we stand and can debate the merits of each view.

And debates don't include sentences that start like this: "Oh so the ridiculous interpretation of what you're saying is...". I'm not attributing that exact sentence to you, but the concept I am. Don't fall into the trap of reflecting a distortion of what I've written in an attempt to win ground - this is waste of time because then I have to refute things you've written that I haven't meant. If you're the slightest bit unclear about something, then ask. If you don't agree, then say so. If you want me to expand on a statement, then I will.

 

[joe-90]

OK then softus.

What do YOU propose the government do to prevent fraud by bogus asylum seekers? How do YOU propose we deal with it?


joe

 

[Freddie]

Cheap labour--part of the problem !

If a company cant operate without paying very low wages then it shouldnt be operating as it is not financially viable.

The reasons why it can only afford to pay low wages lie elsewhere.

To allow immigration to satisfy this demand for cheap labour to disguise or brush over the real reason why the firms are forced to pay cheap labour is morally and politically corupt.----just about says it all about a goverment that does this.

 

[Softus]

...Now then - if you want to have a reasoned discussion, it would be helpful to know which of my statements you align with, and which you don't - then we'll know where we stand and can debate the merits of each view....

OK then softus.

What do YOU propose the government do to prevent fraud by bogus asylum seekers? How do YOU propose we deal with it?

joe

It would be helpful to know which of my statements you align with, and which you don't - then we'll know where we stand and can debate the merits of each view.

(I'm going out for a little while)

 

[joe-90]

...Now then - if you want to have a reasoned discussion, it would be helpful to know which of my statements you align with, and which you don't - then we'll know where we stand and can debate the merits of each view....

OK then softus.

What do YOU propose the government do to prevent fraud by bogus asylum seekers? How do YOU propose we deal with it?

joe

It would be helpful to know which of my statements you align with, and which you don't - then we'll know where we stand and can debate the merits of each view.

(I'm going out for a little while)

I'm talking about the thread topic. About bogus asylum seekers making multiple fraudulant claims. Let's stick to the topic and you answer my question, yes? Good. The question is:

What do YOU propose the government do to prevent fraud by bogus asylum seekers? How do YOU propose we deal with it?



joe

 

[oilman]

seen the news

1 illegal fugee has been caught the police say he could have fraudulenty made claims to the tune of 1 million quid


this is the tip of the iceberg and in my mind this is enouight for me to say close the F****** door on the lot of them and repatriate the rest back to where they came from regardless of what they face

who the **** cares i know i dont and i know most of the uk couldnt give a **** either we are too soft on these c**ts

make me f******* sick and any dogooder wanting to dogood f*** off with them we need to get medevial on this lot teach them a good hard lesson


wake up you fools wake the **** up

Here's a reminder of the start of this topic.

The "illegal fugee" doesn't seem to have been tried yet. Is he guilty?

(Apart from in the eyes of several posters here).

You can't put in any official system to stop them coming in when you're taking money away from the very agencies who are expected to police it. As it is, they can get in by the truckload. First the government (you know, the useless target obsessed bunch of wasters we have as an apology for a government) give resources to the immigration and Customs and Excise agencies.

 

[joe-90]

It doesn't matter whether this particular person is guilty or not - it goes on and everyone knows that. I'm asking Oilman and Softus what their cure for the problem is.


joe

 

[oilman]

Everyone "knows" only because that's what they're told. We're told about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, we're told about gangs raping and shooting in the Superdome in New Orleans, we're told about all sorts of things, some true, most suspect at best.. This is the problem with information, it gets believed without a critical appraisal.

 

[joe-90]

Everyone "knows" only because that's what they're told. We're told about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, we're told about gangs raping and shooting in the Superdome in New Orleans, we're told about all sorts of things, some true, most suspect at best.. This is the problem with information, it gets believed without a critical appraisal.

Are you saying that all asylum seekers are genuine? Are you saying that multiple claims aren't made by the same individual? Or is it that you simply don't want to know because it means that you have to change your way of thinking?


joe

 

[oilman]

Everyone "knows" only because that's what they're told. We're told about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, we're told about gangs raping and shooting in the Superdome in New Orleans, we're told about all sorts of things, some true, most suspect at best.. This is the problem with information, it gets believed without a critical appraisal.

Are you saying that all asylum seekers are genuine? Are you saying that multiple claims aren't made by the same individual? Or is it that you simply don't want to know because it means that you have to change your way of thinking?


joe

To make it very simple for you,

I don't KNOW if they are all genuine, but I suspect some aren't.
I don't KNOW if multiple claims are made, but I suspect some are.
I would like to KNOW.

Trouble is slogger, freddie, you and anyone else who wants to make claims of questionable fact don't present evidence. They have an opinion, which is their right, but if I ask questions I get loaded questions as if they were trying to trick me into saying only what they want to hear.

It will be a great intellectual leap, but see if you can form your questions to allow people to express an opinion that you might then like to discuss rather than have an approach like the Spanish inquisition. (Who incidentally killed a hell of a lot of Muslims, not because they were foreigners, (since they were the same Iberian genes) but because they were not Catholic).

 

[JulieL]

Everyone "knows" only because that's what they're told. We're told about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, we're told about gangs raping and shooting in the Superdome in New Orleans, we're told about all sorts of things, some true, most suspect at best.. This is the problem with information, it gets believed without a critical appraisal.

Are you saying that all asylum seekers are genuine? Are you saying that multiple claims aren't made by the same individual? Or is it that you simply don't want to know because it means that you have to change your way of thinking?


joe

Joe - of course there are some asylum seekers that aren't genuine and there are some individuals who make multiple fraudulent claims - I don't think anyone is disputing this fact.
But there are also lots of people who are born and bred here who are abusing and taking the p**s out of the system who are quite capable of working but can't be bothered (I know many!!!)

 

[joe-90]

Joe - of course there are some asylum seekers that aren't genuine and there are some individuals who make multiple fraudulent claims - I don't think anyone is disputing this fact.
But there are also lots of people who are born and bred here who are abusing and taking the p**s out of the system who are quite capable of working but can't be bothered (I know many!!!)

What does that have to do with anything? There are tens of millions of pounds spent chasing benefit fraudsters, in what way does that justify not preventing asylum fraud? What kind of logic is that?



joe