Indy Ref 2

[motorbiking]

Using the logic that the SNP like to use on matters such as Brexit, perhaps those districts who didn't vote SNP could be moved to England and excluded from the Scottish independence?

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

We had a (once in a generation vote) in 2014. We voted to remain as part of the union.

That allegation has been made by several politicians, not least by Boris.
It's a corruption of Alex Salmond's comment of a 'Once in a lifetime/generation opportunity' contained in his 2013 White Paper.
But Alex Salmond was not referring to the referendum as a once in a lifetime referendum, that's a spin used by anti-independent campaigners.

However, it is abundantly clear from the context of this statement (and with others like it) that Salmond is not agreeing to some alleged, one-off constitutional device – to be used once then locked away in a cupboard for 40 years. Rather he is encouraging the Scottish electorate to seize a particular opportunity (“a rare and precious moment in the history of Scotland”) to oppose austerity and make a fairer Scotland.
Nothing in this statement suggests Salmond is agreeing to close down opportunities in the future to oppose austerity or Brexit, if necessary, and no reasonable person could read that into the quote.
https://www.thenational.scot/news/1...-snp-vowed-indyref-once-lifetime-opportunity/​

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

We've already had a vote. As a believer in democracy, I believe that decision should be respected. You can't just keep voting until you get the decision that suits you.

When the conditions change so much, it's wise to have another vote.
It's like saying that UK should not re-join EU irrespective of how bad things turn out.
That would be a dogmatic proposition, not based on logic or democracy.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

That's immaterial because Scotland can't re-join Europe.

Of course an independent Scotland can apply for membership.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

It would be typical of the EU to allow Scottish membership just to spite the Brits for Brexit.

EU have moved on from Brexit. It's about time UK did the same. But it can't, UK still needs a bogeyman to blame for its problems.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Even if eligibly to join the EU it would take Spain to completely forget about Catalonia and their push for independence. Does anybody really think that Spain will allow a region having gone independent then join the EU. What planet are these people on?

Catalonia is not an sovereign nation. It's a region in Spain.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I didn't say that.
Maybe I wasn't very clear when I said that we can't just keep having elections until someone gets what they want.
Under the terms of The Edinburgh Agreement, both sides agreed to respect the outcome.

No time restraints were placed in that agreement.
The wording could just as easily be interpreted, and is, as both sides would not seek to challenge the results in legal challenges.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

A common practice in that there European Union, ask the Irish.

All democratic nations keep on having elections every few years. It's what democracy is about.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

I don't understand the need for independence by the Scots.

They pretty much run themselves in 90% of all aspects, yet have the advantage of England propping them up financially. The constant it's all Westminster's fault I find a bit dumb founding to be honest.

The real problem is they can get over what happened several hundred years ago. They really know how to hold a grudge.

The other thing I don't understand is the want of independence to then give that independence straight to the EU, which won't give them any more independence than they already have.

I also can't see Spain letting them in the EU, Scotland would be seen as the magazine front cover feature for the independence of Catalonia (another region that can't get rid of the grudge from centuries ago).

Had the UK stayed in the EU, the SNP would still be arguing for independence, I don't buy the we wanted to stay in the EU so now we need independence.

In the words of John d, and the other staunch remainers whom insist on calling all brexiteers thick... I assume all Scots who want independence must also be thick, as the case for their independence is much much worse than that of brexit.

The oil and gas of the North sea is now dying out, so they can't rely on that, the fishing industry is on its knees, even before brexit, if they were to join the EU fishing would still be on its knees except it's likely more EU baits will be in their waters than before.

There is no guarantees they will be able to join the EU, do the EU want another free loader on their books for a start, especially as due to the loss of UK money and covid they are wanting to start tightening the purse strings.

I haven't managed to find any documentation that states Scotland will be better off financially leaving the UK.

That said if that's what they want then so be it, they won't be able to blame Westminster for their failings then.

The EU treaties provide a legal route for any member nation to leave if they wish.
The UK does not provide a process for any member nation to leave if they wish.
Therefore, by any test, the EU is more democratic than UK.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Breaking news:

The prime minister has called a summit with the leaders of the devolved administrations in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, saying the UK is "best served when we work together".

Bit of misnomer there. Unusual for fillyboy.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson has invited the leaders of the devolved nations to a summit on how "Team UK" can recover from the pandemic.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-57043758​

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Using the logic that the SNP like to use on matters such as Brexit, perhaps those districts who didn't vote SNP could be moved to England and excluded from the Scottish independence?

And the same apply to NI, Wales?
How about the UK districts that voted Remain to be moved to Scotland, Ireland or Wales?

 

[noseall]

Using the logic that the SNP like to use on matters such as Brexit, perhaps those districts who didn't vote SNP could be moved to England and excluded from the Scottish independence?

Some on here are suggesting that same thing regards London or any other city that distances itself politically from the government in power. Let's divide the country - smash it to bits, so we can all live together, happily ever after.

 

[Stivino]

They should get the vote again as in fairness they did vote to stay in the EU.

Scotland didn't have a vote on Europe, it was a British vote and Britain voted to leave.

 

[Stivino]

Of course an independent Scotland can apply for membership.

We can apply but we won't get in because we don't meet the criteria.

 

[transam]

Mayoral elections in London throw up strange results

Livingstone

Johnson

Khan

All buffoons

Take corbyn they have voted him in as an MP for what ? 30 odd years ?