Initially I Thought it was a Joke

[Pat ex]

I'm going to say it again. If you're genuinely fleeing a horrendous situation, of course by default that means you're going to travel from your home country to an adjoining country that's accepting immigrants. However, there is absolutely no need for these people to be traversing x other countries to get to the UK.

I'm going to say it again. Usually the hardest part of the asylum seeking process is getting out of your own country.
They're escaping because their life is in danger, usually from the government or its agents. Thus they cannot ask permission to leave, apply for a passport, etc. They need to leave clandestinely.
Once you've left, you are free to choose your destination.
If you are relying on people smugglers, etc, you have little choice of how, when you leave, nor your destination.

Then there is the asylum seekers ability with a foreign language, usually English. If they can speak English, why would they choose to go to France, Germany, etc?

And before I get shouted down with things like 'but they have family here now' that's a part of the friggin problem. If this had been nipped in the bud earlier, some of these people wouldn't now have family members here, perhaps encouraging them even further to head for the UK.

What do you suggest? We are where we are. Your comment is either pointless, or you may be suggesting we forcibly deport anyone who may be British, born here, educated here, with family, jobs, house, etc., on the basis that they might have relatives in other countries.

The whole thing's a complete and utter f**k up.

Did you mean that the asylum application process is not fit for purpose?
Or did you mean that having given visas to foreigners to come and work, study, etc or granting asylum to persecuted people was all a big mistake?
If you meant the latter, you do understand what that means don't you?

 

[gant]

Why couldn't they have booked Pontins?

Didn't book early enough.

 

[motorbiking]

Regardless of your views on this, one thing can't be denied, what a complete and utter f**k up our governments are in terms of dealing with the situation. I've concluded they're either completely and utterly incompetent, or there's a hidden agenda that we the masses are not privy to.

I'm going to say it again. If you're genuinely fleeing a horrendous situation, of course by default that means you're going to travel from your home country to an adjoining country that's accepting immigrants. However, there is absolutely no need for these people to be traversing x other countries to get to the UK.

And before I get shouted down with things like 'but they have family here now' that's a part of the friggin problem. If this had been nipped in the bud earlier, some of these people wouldn't now have family members here, perhaps encouraging them even further to head for the UK.

If the Netherlands suddenly found itself under heavy attack from Belgium, Germany and Denmark and we were friendly to the Netherlands, it would make sense for us to say 'we're sending ships to get you out, or of you end up leaving on your own gobbled together boats, we'll send help.'

Equally, from their perspective, it wouldn't really make sense for them to say 'thanks, we'll use you as a stop-over, we're ultimately heading for Canada.'

The whole thing's a complete and utter f**k up.

It is, but it's not the problem of one nation's government. Individual states can make themselves a harsh destination for illegal immigrants and genuine asylum seekers. Greece does for example, it doesn't make the press often, but they operate a pushback, Italy is looking at blockades and France, to be fair has a massive immigrant/poverty/crime problem in most of its cities. The term "Les Arabes", is synonymous in France with Crime, like we use the term Pik3y

Until governments work together to target the people traffickers in a coordinated way, it wont get any better. At the end of the day, the vast majority are playing the system, have links to criminal gangs or are simply looking for a better standard of living. There are very few genuine refugees coming to the UK by boat.

 

[Pat ex]

. There are very few genuine refugees coming to the UK by boat.

That must be why about 75% asylum seekers are successful.
Unless you think the UK asylum seeking process is not fit for purpose?

Edit, maybe more like 84% are successful.

 

[motorbiking]

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01403/SN01403.pdf disagrees.
Don't misunderstand that a tailing off of refusals in recent years means more people are genuine/getting through. The process can take years and only those with a final decision are shown (as explained in sec 2.2). This is why you see more final statuses are shown in older years. Longer term its dropped from 80% refusal to 60%. These are just those who apply, many just disappear.

 

[Pat ex]

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN01403/SN01403.pdf disagrees.
Don't misunderstand that a tailing off of refusals in recent years means more people are genuine/getting through. The process can take years and only those with a final decision are shown (as explained in sec 2.2). This is why you see more final statuses are shown in older years. Longer term its dropped from 80% refusal to 60%. These are just those who apply, many just disappear.

The success rates has varied over many years. The stats that I referred to were for 2021, the last complete year that the stats are available.
The rate for that year was 72% successful on initial application, with a further 50% successful on appeal.

Referring to those that don't apply is like referring to the man in the moon must be included in Census data.

Claiming that some years, the success rate is lower is very much like Mottie's, "find an item in short supply in my local Sainsburys on a Tuesday morning before 09.00 am, in the third aisle, for less than £2, that was stacked by Edna".

 

[motorbiking]

The data doesn't match your claim. Have a read of the document and include your sources.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

It is, but it's not the problem of one nation's government. Individual states can make themselves a harsh destination for illegal immigrants and genuine asylum seekers. Greece does for example, it doesn't make the press often, but they operate a pushback, Italy is looking at blockades and France, to be fair has a massive immigrant/poverty/crime problem in most of its cities. The term "Les Arabes", is synonymous in France with Crime, like we use the term Pik3y

Until governments work together to target the people traffickers in a coordinated way, it wont get any better. At the end of the day, the vast majority are playing the system, have links to criminal gangs or are simply looking for a better standard of living. There are very few genuine refugees coming to the UK by boat.

Agreed, which is why I used the plural governments, although granted preceded by the word our.

There will never be cross government policy on getting this sorted, so we should be implementing more effective measures UK side.

 

[Pat ex]

The data doesn't match your claim. Have a read of the document and include your sources.

Here's the data, and the source.

Almost three quarters (72%) of the initial decisions in 2021 were grants (of asylum, humanitarian protection or alternative forms of leave),
Of the appeals resolved in 2021, almost half (49%) were allowed (meaning the applicant successfully overturned the initial decision).

How many people do we grant asylum or protection to?

www.gov.uk

Your data was taken from a paper in the House of Commons Library. This is not official data. It's merely a paper presented to parliament.
It has a conditional get-out:

Feedback Every effort is made to ensure that the information contained in these publicly available briefings is correct at the time of publication. Readers should be aware however that briefings are not necessarily updated to reflect subsequent changes.

NB, an asylum application can include more than one person.

 

[Notch7]

At the end of the day, the vast majority are playing the system, have links to criminal gangs or are simply looking for a better standard of living. There are very few genuine refugees coming to the UK by boat.

I dont think that is true

most are coming from: Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Eritrea -places of war or persecution, most are genuine refugees

yes they may be playing the system to be able to claim asylum, it doesnt mean they arent genuine refugees.

 

[motorbiking]

Here's the data, and the source.

How many people do we grant asylum or protection to?

www.gov.uk

Did you read the rest of the paragraph? The outlier in 2021, is fully explained. So its your claim that is:

"find an item in short supply in my local Sainsburys on a Tuesday morning before 09.00 am, in the third aisle, for less than £2, that was stacked by Edna".

and also a reminder, my claim:

. There are very few genuine refugees coming to the UK by boat.

and here is the data to back that up (the latest data):

Irregular migration to the UK, year ending June 2022

www.gov.uk

How many of the 50,297 boat arrivals were granted asylum in the last 4 years?:

A more than 70%
B less than 10%

If you need a hint, it's not A.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

The data doesn't match your claim. Have a read of the document and include your sources.

Pat's comments should only ever be treated as light entertainment.

 

[gant]

I dont think that is true

most are coming from: Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Eritrea -places of war or persecution, most are genuine refugees

yes they may be playing the system to be able to claim asylum, it doesnt mean they arent genuine refugees.

Missed that bit where there's a sizable percentage from Albania?
Think you'll find there's another percentage who are escaping from doing their two year national service.
That would be a laugh watching the
somersaults and squealing of the under 25s if that was brought in over here. You never know with the pretentions of the eu super state for an eu army, never say never it won't happen.

 

[Justin Passing]

I "read somewhere" that they learn which groups get easy access, so some "choose" those identities.
They have no papers.
How true I don't know, but I'd adopt an oppressed religion or grouping it if I though it would help.
Albanians aren't lumped together. "Each case on its merits".

 

[gant]

Saying your fleeing from homosexual persecution gets you up the ladder of 'opportunity'