Installing electric shower from scratch

Inspector said:
FWL - your inexperience lets you down on this one. Not up for debate and sorry about your shortcomings.

Inspector..I have only one thing to say to an inept and dangerous *rs* like you...Go away.

As for experience, I think I had more than you in my first day as an apprentice over 20 years ago..Maybe you should follow the link in my original post.

Everyone here knows that you post cr*p, you have been called on it at almost every post, the only posts that have not been cr*p is were you have simply repeated, parrot fashion, what others have written before you.

If you beleive you are so good, why do you hide behind a silly name, why do you not reveal who you really are and who you work for...or are you scared that the gravediggers will be jealous of your moonlighting?

I think the real truth is your a failed plumber...
 
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James, for the size shower you are putting in, and the short length of run, 6mm will be adequate, although if you ever upgraded that unit you would have a problem as it is really on the 6mm upper limit of compliance.

So the decision is yours, if your unlikely to upgrade the shower to a better one, go with the 6mm, but if you think that you may get a bigger shower at some point, stick in the 10mm and be done with it.
 
FWL-Engineer, Thanks a lot, yes I will go with 6mm then. I don't see myself putting anything bigger in - ever. Oh, and as suspected the supply to my flat is still 240V (just got the multimeter to it) so I'm thinking the 40A mcb will be ok. Well I think I've found out what I need to know and thank you all loads, your a bunch of stars ;)
 
A further few options for the 60amp fuse. FWL has a problem and we experienced engineers apologize for his ignorance on this subject.

here

Glad to here you got sorted
 
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Okay - cable ratings. IEE Regs table 4D5A (right at the back of the blue cover 16th edition, which despite rumours of its demise is still current[sic]) was added to specifically deal with standard twin & earth cable as used extensively in domestic installations. This is what it says:

6 sq mm = 47A if clipped direct (Installation Method 1), falling to 32A if installed in conduit in an insulated wall (quite a difference)
10 sq mm = 64A, clipped direct, falling to 44A in conduit in insulated wall.

Now - and here's the bit that may be controversial - Installation Method 1 also includes "sheathed cables embedded directly in masonry, brickwork, concrete, plaster or thelike (other than thermally insulating materials( [Table 4A1]

The length of your circuit is only really significant for calculating voltage drop and 6m will give you no trouble in this regard. So, you have to decide how your cable will be installed. IF you can keep it exposed throughout its length, except for its passage through building materials then you can rate a 6 sq mm cable at 47A. BUT if your route means that the cable will be enclosed for even so little as 50mm length in thermal insulation you will need to de-rate its current carrying capacity. (500mm length of insulation and the current-carrying capacity halves.)

The issue of cable calculations is much more complex than most people assume and although DIY'ers the length and breadth of Britain are whacking 10.5kW showers on existing (and ancient) 6mm cable runnig through the loft and surrounded by a foot of rockwool, you have the option of doing it right. 6 sq mm will really be operating at about its limit, so why not play safe and go for 10?
 
Duh-er! I just realised I responded to the last post on page 1 of this thread. Apologies for wasting time by repeating some of the stuff on page 2. See why I use this user name? :LOL:
 
dingbat, the cable will be clipped or enclosed in plastic trunking. it wont be going near any insulation or be "burried" anywhere so I think it will be ok.

INSPECTOR- I appreciate your input, but I think your suggestion may be overkill for what I want, and since I have spare bays in the existing cu I see no need to wire a secondary one in. I understand the reasoning behind your suggestion (old cu, so install a second, modern one that can incorporate an rcbo - job done). Please don't yourself or fwl-engineer be drawn into an arguement over this thread, nobody "wins" just agree to disagree, smile, and remember it's not worth the stress or energy :LOL:
 
Cheers James - wise words and I wholeheartedly agree.

FWL - I am anonymous because I INSPECT what YOU DO. Be careful who you reveal yourself to as you are deforming the character of your company, ruining this forum and letting yourself down. I have more years experience than you and am sure I am better qualified. This is all should be said on the matter as I am prepared to agree to disagree. You are the only one who seems content to critique everyones opinion when there are many ways to 'skin a cat' in electrical installations. I am sure you're peeved at others critiquing you but if you can't take it then don't give it.
Your Best Bud
Inspector ;)
 
Inspector, I can take people having a dig, as many will tell you here I will say when I am wrong, and I have said so. I am not all knowing, but I do appear KNOW more than you.

Several here have pulled you on numerous things.

Regarding Qualifications...mmmmmm

236 part 1
236 part 2
236 C Certificate
232 Supplementary Electronics
2381 16th Edition
HNC Electrical Engineering
BSc Astronomy(OU)
MBA

Currently starting a BSc in Physics (OU)

21 years on the job experience, ranging from house bashing to installing 10MVa standby Generator Sets and UPS systems. I have worked on Oil Rigs and ships in the US and Canada, water treatment systems and water removal systems.

Now I will grant you that I am not the most knowledgable of electricians/engineers, the above list only means what it does on paper, however I also have the practical experience to go with it.

As I said in my deleted post, this is not for this forum, you know my name, but you will not reveal yours, my contact details are on the website, if you have the ***** then contact me, if not, please leavit alone and stop attacking me,
If you post rubbish I will correct it, as others have done, If I post something that is incorrect, thenI will correct it if others do not correct it first.

I have been tolerant of this cr*p, my tolerance is at at an end and I will not tolerate anymore personal attacks by you or anyone else. So the simple fact is, if you do not wish to pursue this, leave well alone and let everything move on. Disagree with me, but no more personal attacks, I will do the same.
 
Thanks for the CV
Astronomy? - My degree is in Electrical and Electronic Engineering and my Masters is in Innovation Management. As for personal attacks - look at the history of this debate, and you are the only one who has critiqued. let it lie for your own good.
 
Forget about it FWL. You've taken me almost down to your level. I won't be posting any more on this subject. Grow up.
 
I have read the above post with interest all i can say is good luck FWL_Engineer with your new forum / venture, i sincerly hope it takes off for you.

Then you can leave us all in peace.You do know a lot i admit, but i am sorry your attitude sucks, the average diy person comes here looking for advice, yes you give them advice and also 3 tons of "free information " as well when as i have said before a simple "no" will do.

you do not seem to have the ability to tell what some one is really asking, you give all the required information, but always in the same manor, it never changes, if some one agrees with you then they are your "pal" and you are "nice to them" but some poor sole who comes here asking a simple (but wrong) question, gets verbal abuse, never a polite answer.

I hope for your sake Jim, your attitude improves on your own site, otherwise you will be very lonely over there
 
breezer said:
, but i am sorry your attitude sucks, the average diy person comes here looking for advice, yes you give them advice and also 3 tons of "free information " as well when as i have said before a simple "no" will do.

you do not seem to have the ability to tell what some one is really asking, you give all the required information, but always in the same manor, it never changes, if some one agrees with you then they are your "pal" and you are "nice to them" but some poor sole who comes here asking a simple (but wrong) question, gets verbal abuse, never a polite answer.

I hope for your sake Jim, your attitude improves on your own site, otherwise you will be very lonely over there

Breezer, after re-reading this thread I will put my hands up and state here and now that my original post regarding Inspector was illthought and purile, regardless of anything else, such a personal assault was not warranted and I was wrong to do so..PERIOD.

You and I have often disagreed on the amount of information in a reply to aquestion. My personal belief is different from yours, I believe that if you help someone to understand the problem, then they are more likely to solve it, so many times a simple Yes or No may not suffice.IMHO. Lets agree to differ on that.

You accuse me of verbally abusing people, I have, until the past week, remainded quite calm despite a number of very personal attacks. Yes I was blunt in some of my comments, and perhaps they were not read how I intended them, however for you to comment on my attitude is a case of the pot calling the kettle black..I think we can be as bad as each other in some of our responses..whether intentional or not.

It is odd how you feel that I am unable to pass on information, OK so the way I do may not to be to everyones taste, and it may not ever make me tutor of the day, let alone year, but there are those here that have learnt from information I have passed on.

I'll grant you that perhaps my tolerance level for some could be vastly improved, I have never been tolerant of "stupid" people. I do not mean those without education, I mean the educated who behave like fools, who try to use inflated egos to make themselves sound great or the sort of people who beleive they can do something when they patently cannot.

One of my failings has always been my inability to "tolerate fools gladely", I do not see why I should, if someone wants to know, and is willing to learn, I will give them all the time in the world, I think my reaction to Alberts posts and some others show that. Albert, and a number of others are willing to learn, they want to learn, however some post here in a way that trys to give the impression they are right when the world and his brother can see they are wrong, they will then try to justify their position with comments like "well it's my house".

Yep I should be more tolerant, and I will certainly start to walk away before posting in haste, which I have certainly done a couple of times in the last few days. It is strange, there is one forum I have been posting in for some 6.5 years, and cannot remember having a crossed word, yes not agreeing, but always jovially...odd that some places bring out the worst in us all.
 
i am going to appear to be rude / condesending, but it is not intentional, (this is one of those times i need a very big dictionary, but havn't got one)

you see, you can be nice when you want to be, i honestly think your last reply was very well put.
 

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