Intergas...but which...

[Dan Robinson]

Is that 10:1 a veissman as that is anther brand I had considered.

No, Vokera, which is what we're referring too. Viessmann is ooverpriced tat like most German engineering.

 

[vulcancontinental]

I work for Vokera so can't be as candid or promote as an independant installer can but as I pointed out earlier and transam has kindly repeated, you've had good service out of one so it might be something to consider against other options, excuse the pun. Whatever you choose the man who installs it is more important than the machine, if he's enthusiastic about what he's fitting he'll do it justice.

 

[hard-work]

well the way I see it OP if they have had a Vokera fitted in the prop for over 20 years ??

& it has given good service why not replace it with another vokera

They also make a Vokera with a 10.1 modulation ratio. Unica I . 28,32 or 36 Kw out puts & the Linea

I just read from Vokera that the lowest modulation is 2.8kW, 3.2kW and 3.6kW for their 28, 32 and 36kW models.

 

[hard-work]

20:1 is admirable but if you have a max heat load of 15kw it's unlikely a property's loss would ever be 0.75kw.

Thanks for post.
During Spring and Autumn when a house is up to temperature, the heat load can be way less than 0.75kW.

"The modern boilers premix gas and air like a carburretor"
More like fuel injection as the gas and air are both pressurised.

 

[dishman]

To be honest I never considered Vokera. My brother despises the current one. Although it still works, I think it has had it's share of issue along the way. Replacement was delayed until the extension was started.

I have not read much about them, I assume the Lenea One is the top of the range? Will have to read up in more detail.

 

[hard-work]

I work for Vokera.

A lady friend has just moved into a studio flat. Kitchen and l/room in one room with separate bedroom and bathroom. The combi was a no-name job, well one I have never heard of. It is a Procombi. On Googling it is made by Vokera. It must be 2 or 3 years old. It is simple with a rail burner and a recuperator. Those things they slapped on regular boilers to convert them to condensing boilers. To me Procombi looks like the bargain basement, buy in B&Q, made in Turkey range of Vokera keeping the old production lines open.

It modulates down to 14kW, so with a small studio flat cycling is inevitable and it can be heard clicking on and off. I can see that only on a warm up would it be above the minimum modulation level. The flat looks like 9 kW max would heat it. I told her about the boiler. She said the first signs of trouble she will throw it out and fit a branded model. The installation looks fine, with `maybe` one thermo-rad valve in the bedroom. The pipes under the floorboards may be undersized but I really don't know unless the boards are lifted. I said I would top up the X-100 in case.

If it did pack up, one with a wide modulation rage is essential in this flat. The question is.....is this a reliable combi?

 

[Dan Robinson]

A lady friend has just moved into a studio flat. Kitchen and l/room in one room with separate bedroom and bathroom. The combi was a no-name job, well one I have never heard of. It is a Procombi. On Googling it is made by Vokera. It must be 2 or 3 years old. It is simple with a rail burner and a recuperator. Those things they slapped on regular boilers to convert them to condensing boilers. To me Procombi looks like the bargain basement, buy in B&Q, made in Turkey range of Vokera keeping the old production lines open.

It modulates down to 14kW, so with a small studio flat cycling is inevitable and it can be heard clicking on and off. I can see that only on a warm up would it be above the minimum modulation level. The flat looks like 9 kW max would heat it. I told her about the boiler. She said the first signs of trouble she will throw it out and fit a branded model. The installation looks fine, with `maybe` one thermo-rad valve in the bedroom. The pipes under the floorboards may be undersized but I really don't know unless the boards are lifted. I said I would top up the X-100 in case.

If it did pack up, one with a wide modulation rage is essential in this flat. The question is.....is this a reliable combi?

They are what they are and feed a certain market (talking about the Procombi) many other manufacturers did similar. Some just tweaked software to nudge products over the line in the test lab.

We fitted a Unica donated by Vokera for a charity installation and I was looking at it thinking "why would you spend 3 times this on a Viessmann?

Build quality was much the same, functions too for 90% properties. Only criticism was the tiny opening for the wiring.

 

[vulcancontinental]

Pro-Combi's are made for a wholesaler for a price range. At that age it might be made in our factories none of which are in Turkey, or it might be a rebadged ideal. Manufacturers are asked for several thousand boilers at a set price and the best bid gets to make and badge them for the customer.

We actually don't make them but they are made at the parent company's factory on the same line. It does sound like one of ours similar to the Compact HE. I love them, simple boilers, very little to go wrong except the PCB which is expensive until compared to a Viessmann but they're very rarely if ever serviced properly although you could say that about any boiler.

Don't just think about power which is important for hot water production and wide modulation range which is important for low heating loads, think about whether the water supply coming into the house is sufficient. It's pointless putting in a 15.6 l/min Linea One or 14.6 l/min Unica 36i if you only have 12 l/min coming into the house.

As for reliability depending on the offers and model they are warrantied for 5,7 or 10 years all on the proviso they are serviced every year.

 

[hard-work]

We fitted a Unica donated by Vokera for a charity installation and I was looking at it thinking "why would you spend 3 times this on a Viessmann?

Thanks Dan. I just thought. Many people buy many `quality` products because of the reliability factor. I know many buy Neff for show in the kitchen, which is brand snobbery. In the flat in question, the visually excellent condition 2 or 3 year old fridge/freezer has packed up, so she is buying a branded make rather than pay a lot to get this no-name fridge fixed. In the flat all appliances on show are Bosch and those out of sight, dishwasher, combi fridge-freezer are bargain basement appliances.

At one third of the price of a Viessmann, if reliability is the concern, `fear` of no heating or hot water, two Unica's could be fitted (space permitting) and you still have change. Have two throw-over switches, one for the mains to the combi and one for the wall stat/timer. If one is broken, just hit two switches and hot water and heating available.

One question, you say the Unica looked as good in build quality to the Viessmann with the cases off. But I would presume the Viessmann had higher quality and more reliable components, giving it the edge in reliability. As BMW`s have higher quality components to say a FIAT.

 

[hard-work]

Pro-Combi's are made for a wholesaler for a price range. At that age it might be made in our factories none of which are in Turkey, or it might be a rebadged ideal. Manufacturers are asked for several thousand boilers at a set price and the best bid gets to make and badge them for the customer.

We actually don't make them but they are made at the parent company's factory on the same line. It does sound like one of ours similar to the Compact HE. I love them, simple boilers, very little to go wrong except the PCB which is expensive until compared to a Viessmann but they're very rarely if ever serviced properly although you could say that about any boiler.

Don't just think about power which is important for hot water production and wide modulation range which is important for low heating loads, think about whether the water supply coming into the house is sufficient. It's pointless putting in a 15.6 l/min Linea One or 14.6 l/min Unica 36i if you only have 12 l/min coming into the house.

As for reliability depending on the offers and model they are warrantied for 5,7 or 10 years all on the proviso they are serviced every year.

Thanks VC. It looks like this. The 25kW job as it only does one shower
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1103860/Vokera-Procombi-85-He.html?page=3#manual

You say it is re-badged for a specific large wholesaler. Which one sells the Pro-Combi?

VC, I think you contradicted yourself inadvertently in this:
`We actually don't make them but they are made at the parent company's factory on the same line.`

The combi must be around 2 to 3 years old, 3 max, as the place was totally renovated. She doesn't appear to have any documentation at all on the combi, so is the 5 year guarantee void? It will receive a service soon. I will pour in some X-100 to be sure. Your thumbs up on the reliability is encouraging. Running down to 14kW cycling will be a problem. I told her to keep the radiator temperatures as low as possible and in really cold weather crank it up a little. Looking at the manual it, looks like a stock Italian parts combi.

Once again thanks.

 

[hard-work]

but they're very rarely if ever serviced properly although you could say that about any boiler.

I picked up on this point. Looking at the combi, it is a simple rail burner, so the heat exchanger does need a brush run over it. Apart from that, the rest appears to checking burner gas pressures and as they say in the car industry, give it a `walk around`. It is very simple. She is thinking of getting a British Gas contract for piece of mind.

 

[Dan Robinson]

you say the Unica looked as good in build quality to the Viessmann with the cases off. But I would presume the Viessmann had higher quality and more reliable components, giving it the edge in reliability. As BMW`s have higher quality components to say a FIAT.

You have fallen into a trap there..... For example, they both use the same pump (boilers, not BMW). My last car was a Honda Accord. Made in Japan. The only unreliable parts were the expensive German ones.

VC, I think you contradicted yourself inadvertently in this:
`We actually don't make them but they are made at the parent company's factory on the same line.`

No.... It was carefully worded. Who are Vokera's parent company?

 

[hard-work]

You have fallen into a trap there..... For example, they both use the same pump (boilers, not BMW). My last car was a Honda Accord. Made in Japan. The only unreliable parts were the expensive German ones.

True. I had a super reliable Toyota (made in England), and the alternator went dickie (Bosch). I stripped the alternator and cleaned it all up and it worked again.

I see that most boilers use a plethora of third party parts so they are a sort of kit. It is easy to see if a boiler has a quality gas valve and pump by looking at the name stamped on them. It is the other bits like three-way valve, flue fan and thermisters. These could be bargain basement buys (similar to having Neff appliances where they are shown and cheap and nasty behind the cupboard doors). Having the best pump in the world on a combi, it still does not work if a cheap themister or pcb fails. It is the quality of all the components that matters ultimately. Another point about cheap v expensive boilers. The cheap models tend to be `noisy`, while the quality brands tend to just hum. A quiet boiler is a must in some flats or houses. If a boiler is in a utility room or garage, it doesn't matter as it is out of earshot.

Who are Vokera's parent company?

I have not a clue.

 

[vulcancontinental]

Let Dan reply about the Viessmann and quality. They're a boiler like any other and perception is all.

The existing boiler would be sold by Pro-combi with a 2 year warranty and they were phased out as it is a Band B boiler three years ago.
Pro-Combi have documentation on their website.
There are slight differences between ours and theirs so don't use our documentation.
When it's serviced make sure the recuperator is cleaned and the condensate pipe checked.
We do the servicing and warranty calls for Pro-Combi anyway. You could ring our customer service dept and maybe they'd offer a service, around £80 I think.

Yes, I suppose it's a contradiction but when we were privately owned the factory made boilers to our spec. Then we were purchased by the group that own the manufacturer who now design the boilers and we get a UK spec but the parent can do their own deals to sell a slightly different spec under a different badge in the UK.

Pro-Combi and Sabres (for another wholesaler) are now made by Ideal I believe. I stay away from sales so although I was told who the wholesalers are I let it drift.

 

[hard-work]

Let Dan reply about the Viessmann and quality. They're a boiler like any other and perception is all.

The existing boiler would be sold by Pro-combi with a 2 year warranty and they were phased out as it is a Band B boiler three years ago.
Pro-Combi have documentation on their website.
There are slight differences between ours and theirs so don't use our documentation.
When it's serviced make sure the recuperator is cleaned and the condensate pipe checked.
We do the servicing and warranty calls for Pro-Combi anyway. You could ring our customer service dept and maybe they'd offer a service, around £80 I think.

Yes, I suppose it's a contradiction but when we were privately owned the factory made boilers to our spec. Then we were purchased by the group that own the manufacturer who now design the boilers and we get a UK spec but the parent can do their own deals to sell a slightly different spec under a different badge in the UK.

Pro-Combi and Sabres (for another wholesaler) are now made by Ideal I believe. I stay away from sales so although I was told who the wholesalers are I let it drift.

VC thanks. I Googled and Riello own Vokera. Riello have a good reputation for commercial burners, oil and gas. Do Vokera do the British Gas call out type of deals? I assume it is better going to the makers rather than British Gas who have to deal with every maker. The makers will probably have the part in his van. I get it that Pro-combi do not source from Vokera any longer and this model is `obsolete`.