joe90 & any other holocaust deniers

[jeds]

What about surviving German written records. There are thousands that can be looked up quite easily and they are copies of the original documents so can't be explained away easily. Many refer to crematoria ovens and improving efficiency and throughput. Dozens refer to needing more ovens urgently. One I saw said that capacity was 1850 corpses per day and this was not sufficient and more ovens are needed urgently. Many refer to research on ovens and how to improve them. Many are giving feedback on new ovens and increased efficiency. One refers to ordering a new 'ball mill' for "special substances" at Chelmno. Dozens list 'special' construction projects. Dozens refer to orders for new 'gas doors' and various other equipment. One interesting one refers to the labour force at Auschwitz; 870 stokers and 30 wood loaders for the crematoria. And that's despite the fact that you claim no smoke was ever seen coming from the ovens! What were those stokers up to do you think? There are thousands more records, some recovered from filing cabinets and some intercepted. Apart from memos, letters and reports there are a number of officer diaries. These clearly refer to extermination - the Auschwitz doctor himself refers to the camp as "the Auschwitz camp of extermination". Plus there are literally thousands of photographs of piles of corpses and mass burial pits.

What's the conspiracy line on those documents?

The crematoria you are referring to were standard in all German camps they were only capable of cremating on body at a time, as for gas tight doors these were aslo standard in all german air raid shelters and delousing facilities.

Why would they need 800 stokers for one body at a time?

This Auschwitz report in October 1941 says that 60 men can be cremated in one hour.

http://s3.photobucket.com/user/Rodoh_Hans/media/Erlaeuterungs.jpg.html

The Topf engineer that developed and built the ovens said in a letter that "the number of muffles [37 with a capacity of 1850 corpses per day] is not yet sufficient; we should deliver more ovens as quick as possible".

Again these aren't accounts given after the event they are contemporary letters and correspondence from people involved at the time. Why would they have even mentioned such things if it wasn't what they saw, witnessed or knew of.

 

[wobs]

Professor Jan Markiewicz is Jewish.

The girl that did the Treblinka geophysics was Jewish. The people that paid her to do it were Jewish. What conclusion did you expect her to reach?

They are scientists , and far more qualified to carry such studies than a crank such as Leuchter.

Sturdy Colls is a forensic archeologist. Someone who is ideally suited to such a job. Her work is available online, and methods well respected by her peers. You know... others in that field of work.

Leuchter meanwhile showed not the slightest consideration for scientific method, not just in his sampling technique (even I was appauled when I saw the film of him years ago), but planning, and interpretation.

An Australian crew did an 8 day analysis of Treblinka - but you don't want to hear about that one do you?

Ah, the electrician chap who has not had anything published, and went to Tehran to share his views. Nice. Hardly a qualified individual, and indeed a Holocaust denier.

Leuchter knows a gas chamber when he sees one - designing them was his job.

How does that make him qualified to investigate the remains of a site from over 6 decades ago, find evidence, collect it appropriately, interpret the findings, and report accurately? Oh wait, it doesn't

Did I mention he's also corrupt?

Not finding something, and making claims that are easily debunked really does show how dead the Holocaust Deniers cause is.

 

[wobs]

[You are posting rubbish mate, the so called study you are referring to was in response to the Fred leuchter revelations that showed no trace of cyanide in the so called gas the chamber, the Auschwitz museum(the same people who put the "4million people died here" sign on the gate of Auschwitz called in the institute you are referring to, to carry out a damage limitation exercise, unfortunately their findings confirmed Fred Leuchters so they never released them to the public.

No historian or scholar has used said plaque as a historical reference, so why the focus on it?

In public the Auschwitz museum said Leuchter was a crank and didn't have a clue, it wasn't until some mischief maker released the report of the institute onto the internet that they called the "experts" called back for another investigation this time they came up with the correct result.
A lot of people are mislead into believing that Fred Leuchter analysed the samples he took from Auschitz himself, in fact they were analysed in a commercial forensic lab in America by a DR Roth (who happened to be Jewish) he backtracked from his own findings when he found out what they were being used for.

Like I said, his whole approach was unscientific. It is little surpise he didn't find anything.

 

[wobs]

Some detailed results of a study at Belzec:
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/modern/archreview.html

An invasive study, which is frowned upon generally.

 

[vinty]

Of course the Nazis destroyed many of the gas chambers before liberation, to try to hide their crimes (along with digging up bodies and burning them etc).

If the Cavalry were coming over the hill, would staying put and digging up graves, burning bodies etc, be likely? In the hope of hiding a decade's worth of industrial-scale atrocities?
Serious question.

Sonderaktion 1005 began in 1942, when the high command realised that the East would be lost, but they had until 1944 before the Soviets marched into the macarbre areas, and found the ashes/bones/mounds of bodies. Many but not all of the mass graves were dug up and the bodies burned. Many bones were ground down, although there dispute whether pictures of the bone mills are genuine.

According to the camp records 75,000 people died in Auschwitz 30,000 of them Jewish so the fact that there are mass graves is not in dispute, if the Russians found so many dead and dying inmates and they suspected that mass gassing had taken place why didn't they test the bodies they found for evidence of cyanide poisoning and if they did what were the results, to my knowledge it is customery in these type of cases to carry out forensic examinations to establish the cause of death, from what I have read that despite gassing being the overwhelming cause of death in these camps no one has ever been able to produce an autopsy report confirming that some one had actually been gassed

 

[vinty]

Some detailed results of a study at Belzec:
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/modern/archreview.html

An invasive study, which is frowned upon generally.

This investigation took place in 1998 were the core samples which were taken ever tested for the presence of poison gas and if they were what was the result.

 

[joe-90]

They are scientists , and far more qualified to carry such studies than a crank such as Leuchter.

Sturdy Colls is a forensic archeologist. Someone who is ideally suited to such a job. Her work is available online, and methods well respected by her peers. You know... others in that field of work.

She's Jewish and very biased. So are those that fund her biased investigation. Do you really think they'd fund her investigation if there was the slightest doubt she wouldn't find what they wanted her to find?

The holocaust has been, and is continuing to be proven untrue.

BTW, why won't you answer my questions re imprisonment of those seeking the truth? Not ashamed are you?

 

[noseall]

The holocaust has been, and is continuing to be proven untrue.

Conspiracy THEORIES are not proof Joey.

They are intended for the weak minded.

 

[joe-90]

[You are posting rubbish mate, the so called study you are referring to was in response to the Fred leuchter revelations that showed no trace of cyanide in the so called gas the chamber, the Auschwitz museum(the same people who put the "4million people died here" sign on the gate of Auschwitz called in the institute you are referring to, to carry out a damage limitation exercise, unfortunately their findings confirmed Fred Leuchters so they never released them to the public.

No historian or scholar has used said plaque as a historical reference, so why the focus on it?

Because you told the whole world for forty five years it was the gospel truth. THAT'S why anyone seeking the truth should focus on it. How much bigger a lie could there have been?

 

[wobs]

[You are posting rubbish mate, the so called study you are referring to was in response to the Fred leuchter revelations that showed no trace of cyanide in the so called gas the chamber, the Auschwitz museum(the same people who put the "4million people died here" sign on the gate of Auschwitz called in the institute you are referring to, to carry out a damage limitation exercise, unfortunately their findings confirmed Fred Leuchters so they never released them to the public.

No historian or scholar has used said plaque as a historical reference, so why the focus on it?

Because you told the whole world for forty five years it was the gospel truth. THAT'S why anyone seeking the truth should focus on it. How much bigger a lie could there have been?

No I didn't. 45 years ago I was too young to speak.
Why don't you focus on some truths for once, and stop focusing on conspiracy theories.

 

[joe-90]

I'd rather focus on all the lies that you now want to disown.

For 45 years you told us that 4.1 million jews died there - yet now it proven fake - you want to forget it? No way Jose - I'll remind you and anyone interested in the deceit that is known as the Holocaust.

If you can lie about 4.1 million deaths by gas then you'll lie about anything.

 

[bernardgreen]

The 4.1 million could be the number of prisoners who went into Auschwitz. Some would have been executed by gas within minutes of arrival, some would have been starved to death, some would have died from illness, some would have been executed for bad behaviour and some would have been sent as slave labour to other camps where they would eventually die or be executed.


It was some considerable time after the war before the full list of concentration, slave labour and extermination camps could be compiled.

So for a few years it was thought that all the missing people had been taken to only a couple of extermination camps. Hence the assumed number of people "processed" at Auschwitz was higher than the actual number.

 

[joe-90]

Do you honestly believe that Bernard? A plaque outside for 45 years telling the whole world that 4.1 million had been gassed? And all you can say is it might have been this or it might have been that? Be honest with yourself and look at the facts. It didn't happen. It was all propaganda. The genie is out of the bottle now. The whole world can see the truth. It just didn't happen.

 

[bernardgreen]

My opinion is based on my having met and talked with a few survivors of camps. I have also discussed the matter with the managers and staff of two factories where slave labour was used during the war.

The Holocaust did happen.

 

[joe-90]

There are loads of Jewish survivors (millions of them went to Israel). Loads that don't remember the gas chambers, in fact, how could they? They were all gassed according to you. I've yet to hear a survivor talk first hand about gas chambers - it was always what somebody else said about it. How you can tell the world about the 4.1 million who were gassed for 45 long years - and then say it was a 'load of rubbish, don't let's talk about' it is beyond anyone with an open mind. It didn't happen. You believe because you want to believe, not because you examined the evidence and made a reasoned analysis.

If you want people like me to believe that 11,000,000 people can be killed in Poland without anyone knowing about it, you'd better come up with some real evidence, not plaques telling outright lies, gas chambers that couldn't possibly work, Jewish girls finding fake evidence at Treblinka etc.