Joining the motorway (259)

[cwhaley]

Yes, I actually learnt that technique from a HGV driver when he was giving me some training on a 7.5t flat back many years ago.
His advice was, as you are approaching a turn off, be prepared to move out a lane in case there is a stream of traffic coming on to the motorway/A class road. Even if there isn't, it can be useful to move anyway in case an 'idiot' is flying down the slip road for whatever reason. This is especially useful in roads that pass through or close to city boundaries at peak times.
You simply look ahead to see if there is anyone on the slip road and glance in your rear side mirrors as you are passing in case someone is coming from a blind spot.

Ah that's interesting. I often see them move over into lane two well in advance of the junction (when I'm heading back home, going southbound). It's a junction where lots of HGVs join, as many industries in Derby and Nottingham will use it to get their goods onto the M1.

That's the roadmanship I was talking about earlier. Probably a better word for it, but it's being forward-thinking and anticipating things in order to help keep traffic flowing. I've said on here many times that I drive slower these days (to give people space and back off from potential problems) and my journeys are far less stressful.

 

[conny]

It's a proven fact that if vehicles leave a safe gap, (2 seconds at 40mph, 3 at 50mph etc), that there are far fewer incidents and traffic actually moves quicker. When traffic is bunched up, if there is a delay ahead, it will cause following traffic to slow down and bunch up more. This called the concertina effect, and what it does is cause the following cars to try and start up again from a much slower speed or a dead stop.
If you watch motor racing you will see the effect of this when the race starts or when they have been following a safety car. The cars at the fron get away quickly, whereas those further down the field have to wait till the ones ahead of them start moving. Not everyone starts to accelerate at the same time, just as not everyone breaks at the same time. If a car in front of you brakes sharply at a certain point on the road, you have to break earlier to allow for your reaction time, your brakes may not be as sharp as the drivers in front, therefore you will take longer to stop. Result? You hit the car in front and are entirely to blame for not driving at a safe distance in order to stop.
There are so many things that, either don't get mentioned/taught when learning to drive, or are glossed over as though they are not important.
In over 35 years of driving I've had 4 'incidents'. The first was a woman cutting through a line of traffic turning right, and crossing my path. I braked hard, (no skid), and I clipped her rear wing. Both cars were roadworthy enough to drive to a garage and no-one hurt. The other 3 were rear enders into me because the idiots were driving too close. Admittedly the first one, back in the early 90's was a 38 ton lorry who committed various offences, (62mph in a 40mph zone seconds before hitting me, over hours on his tacho, overweight on his load, under the influence of drink and defective tyres on his lorry). But in those 3 later incidents my cars were classed as write-offs. All because people hadn't been taught, or didn't apply, the 2 second rule and to look ahead of the car in front.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

That was my concern. How could I then build up speed if I am - according to rule 259 - not travel on the hard shoulder.

You're lucky you weren't driving on The Continent. I found the slip roads to join motorways/dual carriageways there to be much shorter than ours. Didn't give you much chance to build up any speed, and if the road was busy you couldn't linger in the slip road waiting for a gap., as it soon turned into a hard shoulder. It was very noticeable that certain nationalities were more disposed to creating a gap so you could move from slip into lane 1. Czechs and Poles were b'stards in this respect as they would never create a gap or move to lane 2 to let you join motorway. Several times I had to keep going on the hard shoulder until there was a gap - or I would have had to come to a stop as I was blocked from joining. Drivers in Holland however were very accommodating and civilised. Then there was Germany, adding nutters in Merc, BMW, Audi, Porsche doing warp factor nine added into the mix to make life even more exciting.

 

[cwhaley]

It's a proven fact that if vehicles leave a safe gap, (2 seconds at 40mph, 3 at 50mph etc), that there are far fewer incidents and traffic actually moves quicker. When traffic is bunched up, if there is a delay ahead, it will cause following traffic to slow down and bunch up more. This called the concertina effect, and what it does is cause the following cars to try and start up again from a much slower speed or a dead stop.

Exactly -- and that gap is your cushion for thinking/reacting. It took time to learn this but it made a huge difference to my driving experience. All-too-often do I see drivers right up the rear of the car in front of them, stuck in the endless loop of accelerating/braking/accelerating/braking. I really can't fathom why they think it's a good idea. Just back off a little!

You're lucky you weren't driving on The Continent. I found the slip roads to join motorways/dual carriageways there to be much shorter than ours. Didn't give you much chance to build up any speed, and if the road was busy you couldn't linger in the slip road waiting for a gap., as it soon turned into a hard shoulder.

I've drive to Paris and back three times and although the Avenue d'Anglais was always clear, the other motorways were filled with the drivers you mention. Often when overtaking a HGV or slow-moving vehicle with good speed, they would still appear right up in your rear view wanting you to get out the way. I also found that once I started approaching the city the driving style is very, very defensive and I'm convinced that part of that was due to the "GB" sticker on the back!

I have cycled in Amsterdam and some of the surrounding villages andI have never shared the road with as many courteous drivers as I did there!

 

[ReganAndCarter]

Often when overtaking a HGV or slow-moving vehicle with good speed, they would still appear right up in your rear view wanting you to get out the way. I also found that once I started approaching the city the driving style is very, very defensive and I'm convinced that part of that was due to the "GB" sticker on the back!

German autobahns are like this and the most stressful motorways I've driven on. Unfortunately most of the ones I drove on were only 2 lanes in each direction, and as my vehicle was neither the fastest nor one of the slow crawlers, I spent most of the time playing Frogger trying to get past HGVs in lane 1. I would scrutinise my rear view mirror and see there was nothing behind for miles, then move out into lane 2 to start my overtake. As soon as I was alongside the vehicle I was overtaking Herman in his Merc, BMW, Audi, Porsche would appear from nowhere 2 inches from my bumper trying to barge me out of the way. Anyone who wants higher or no speed limits on UK motorways should try it out on an autobahn for a few hours first.

 

[JonathanM]

It's a proven fact that if vehicles leave a safe gap, (2 seconds at 40mph, 3 at 50mph etc), that there are far fewer incidents and traffic actually moves quicker. When traffic is bunched up, if there is a delay ahead, it will cause following traffic to slow down and bunch up more. This called the concertina effect, and what it does is cause the following cars to try and start up again from a much slower speed or a dead stop.

Thanks, I've often wondered about this.

Most drivers don’t seem have a clue about looking ahead and anticipating. On a motorway I always leave the recommended gap and stick to the guidance about not weaving in and out of the inside lane from the middle lane when overtaking more than one car. But you quite often get hassle from other drivers for doing both or either of these things. It’s not just about protecting myself. I’m thinking that I will also be protecting other drivers.

If you watch cars ahead of you going round a curve on the motorway, you will often see a whole line of drivers in the fast lane tapping on their brakes because they are so close to the car in front. I can go a whole journey without touching the brake pedal.

I remember there was also research more than 20 years ago that showed that if everyone drove at 50mph rather than 70mph then everyone would arrive sooner.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I get the impression that many drivers think that the procedure for joining a motorway is to charge out of the slip lane with their eyes closed, while everyone else scatters out of their way.

Also I used to think that truck drivers were the highly trained kings of the road. Definitely not any more.

I see driving as a game of survival, I used to enjoy going for a drive but almost never do now. There are approximately zero police patrols, I don't actually remember the last time I saw one. If someone wants to spend their day being a dangerous arse then nobody will stop them.

Tailgating is the norm these days, more do it than not. I wait until there's a clear straight road, indicate left, slow down and wave to the right. Zero aggression, I just want them to go away. Sadly many don't even want to get past, they're just driving their version of normally so get really confused by all this. I have no tolerance for this, your life is in danger if anything happens in front so putting up with it is not the right thing to do.

The roads are the wild west now, there are no rules.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

In over 35 years of driving I've had 4 'incidents'.

60 years, intensive, all over UK and EU zero claims, worst I've had was caravan on tow, wiped by a lorry whilst it was parked and a transit driver cresting the brow of a hill, and rear ending my tow ball. My car was undamaged, his Transit had a burst rad, and cooling fan pushed into the engine.

Step G/son's driving scares me. He's had several - lack of care and attention type accidents, almost lost his licence along with his job, until I intervened on his behalf to reduce his disqualification period. Triggering cameras every time. Now he's having to contribute to his employer's extra cost of insuring him, to keep his job. If he's failing to see obvious cameras, what else is he failing to see?

So many pass the test and assume they are God's gift to driving. I took the tests, 3 of them, passed first time, then began the hard job of learning to drive - safely.

 

[conny]

German autobahns are like this and the most stressful motorways I've driven on. Unfortunately most of the ones I drove on were only 2 lanes in each direction, and as my vehicle was neither the fastest nor one of the slow crawlers, I spent most of the time playing Frogger trying to get past HGVs in lane 1. I would scrutinise my rear view mirror and see there was nothing behind for miles, then move out into lane 2 to start my overtake. As soon as I was alongside the vehicle I was overtaking Herman in his Merc, BMW, Audi, Porsche would appear from nowhere 2 inches from my bumper trying to barge me out of the way. Anyone who wants higher or no speed limits on UK motorways should try it out on an autobahn for a few hours first.

My son in law was driving down the M1 towards Kent in his delivery van about 2 years ago. Safe distance from the vehicle in front and doing 58mph, (he had dashcam footage with speed, location etc), nothing coming up in the outer lane, so he indicated and moved out. Picked up a little speed, (64mph), to get past the vehicle he was overtaking and BANG! His speedometer registered 73mph for a brief period as he brought it to a controlled stop against the central barrier. He was uninjured, the two people in the car behind suffered whiplash and minor cuts & bruises but their car was a write-off while his van was repairable. The Chief Constable was not best pleased when my SIL's solicitor asked for the footage from the police car that hit him. He was told the camera had been damaged and the file was unable to be retrieved. He said not to worry, as his clients rear camera survived, and they could have a copy of it for their insurers to view before it went to court. The police had accused him of pulling out without signalling, (you could hear the clicks before, during and after he started the manoeuvre), and driving without due care and attention.
After the offer to give them a copy of SIL's footage they were able to 'get an expert to retrieve the data from the equipment' and were withdrawing all charges. Both cameras showed the police car literally, 'jump out from 6 vehicles back and accelerate very quickly. So quickly in fact that they were almost into the back of the van before the blue lights came on, (which wasn't showing on their view), before hitting SIL at 102mph
Sounds horrific at that speed but, because SIL was doing 64mph when he was hit, the actual impact speed was at 38mph. Their insurance paid up without question after getting the full story.

 

[conny]

60 years, intensive, all over UK and EU zero claims, worst I've had was caravan on tow, wiped by a lorry whilst it was parked and a transit driver cresting the brow of a hill, and rear ending my tow ball. My car was undamaged, his Transit had a burst rad, and cooling fan pushed into the engine.

Step G/son's driving scares me. He's had several - lack of care and attention type accidents, almost lost his licence along with his job, until I intervened on his behalf to reduce his disqualification period. Triggering cameras every time. Now he's having to contribute to his employer's extra cost of insuring him, to keep his job. If he's failing to see obvious cameras, what else is he failing to see?

So many pass the test and assume they are God's gift to driving. I took the tests, 3 of them, passed first time, then began the hard job of learning to drive - safely.

And we are still learning every time we got out Harry. Have to admit, the only other driver I can relax with is my wife. She's been driving longer than me and never had a claim but drives in the same style as me. I can have a doze when she drives. With others I tend to sit in the back and chat with the grandkids or read a book if they are not with us.
Well done on your driving record.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

After the offer to give them a copy of SIL's footage they were able to 'get an expert to retrieve the data from the equipment' and were withdrawing all charges. Both cameras showed the police car literally, 'jump out from 6 vehicles back and accelerate very quickly. So quickly in fact that they were almost into the back of the van before the blue lights came on, (which wasn't showing on their view), before hitting SIL at 102mph

I have always had front and rear recording camera for several years now. I used it a few times to report bad driving.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

My son in law was driving down the M1 towards Kent in his delivery van about 2 years ago. Safe distance from the vehicle in front and doing 58mph, (he had dashcam footage with speed, location etc), nothing coming up in the outer lane, so he indicated and moved out. Picked up a little speed, (64mph), to get past the vehicle he was overtaking and BANG! His speedometer registered 73mph for a brief period as he brought it to a controlled stop against the central barrier. He was uninjured, the two people in the car behind suffered whiplash and minor cuts & bruises but their car was a write-off while his van was repairable. The Chief Constable was not best pleased when my SIL's solicitor asked for the footage from the police car that hit him. He was told the camera had been damaged and the file was unable to be retrieved. He said not to worry, as his clients rear camera survived, and they could have a copy of it for their insurers to view before it went to court. The police had accused him of pulling out without signalling, (you could hear the clicks before, during and after he started the manoeuvre), and driving without due care and attention.
After the offer to give them a copy of SIL's footage they were able to 'get an expert to retrieve the data from the equipment' and were withdrawing all charges. Both cameras showed the police car literally, 'jump out from 6 vehicles back and accelerate very quickly. So quickly in fact that they were almost into the back of the van before the blue lights came on, (which wasn't showing on their view), before hitting SIL at 102mph
Sounds horrific at that speed but, because SIL was doing 64mph when he was hit, the actual impact speed was at 38mph. Their insurance paid up without question after getting the full story.

Very sinister how those who are supposed to be upholding the law lied and tried to frame your son. Guessing this is a lot more common than we think.

 

[johnny2007]

What would you have done?

Put the foot down and get to the fast lane, away from hgvs and middle lane hugglers.

 

[johnny2007]

German autobahns are like this and the most stressful motorways I've driven on. Unfortunately most of the ones I drove on were only 2 lanes in each direction, and as my vehicle was neither the fastest nor one of the slow crawlers, I spent most of the time playing Frogger trying to get past HGVs in lane 1. I would scrutinise my rear view mirror and see there was nothing behind for miles, then move out into lane 2 to start my overtake. As soon as I was alongside the vehicle I was overtaking Herman in his Merc, BMW, Audi, Porsche would appear from nowhere 2 inches from my bumper trying to barge me out of the way. Anyone who wants higher or no speed limits on UK motorways should try it out on an autobahn for a few hours first.

Autobahns are not for everyone.
You either accept to sit behind an hgv or use a fast car and go at least at 120mph.
I used to make my trips longer to go on the autobahn.
Best fun is on motorbike going at mad speed.
Good times.

I have always had front and rear recording camera for several years now. I used it a few times to report bad driving.

KAREN ALARM!!!

 

[conny]

Autobahns are not for everyone.
You either accept to sit behind an hgv or use a fast car and go at least at 120mph.
I used to make my trips longer to go on the autobahn.
Best fun is on motorbike going at mad speed.
Good times.

KAREN ALARM!!!

That makes 2 of us then, as I too have used it to report dangerous/foolish driving by others who were putting other people in danger.
My last one was about 3 weeks ago when it picked up a guy turning right in front of me.

I was waiting at a temporary traffic lights for them to turn gen in my favour, but because the lights were on the opposite corner of a road junction leading to a primary school and an ambulance station, I had stopped short to keep the junction clear. A number of cars were able to turn into the road enabling the road they were leaving to flow freely. The third car to make the turn was a guy in an estate car, practically hanging on to the tow bar in front because he was so close. Standing at the corner on my side of the road were a couple of mums with young children, (aged about 5-7 but thankfully quietly waiting with their mums/dads), who were waiting for the road to clear so they could cross. The guy in the estate car was using his left hand to swing the steering wheel round because his right hand was holding his phone to his ear and clearly having an animated conversation or maybe even an argument with someone on the other end.

Thankfully no one was injured by his actions but, do you really think I shouldn't have bothered?
If I hadn't, and at a later date I read in the news that someone had been hurt/killed by someone who fitted his description/car make, how do you think I might feel? At least by him getting a visit from the police it may have made him realise what an idiot he had been and hopefully made him think twice about doing it again. Hopefully he got more than just a 'friendly chat'.