LABC being uncooperative

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Hi all,

Looking to do some notifiable work in my house, namely moving some sockets around and extending a ring main, adding a couple new circuits for the loft and the garden, and replacing the aged consumer unit.

I feel this is within my competency and I'll be buying a copy of BS7671 to aid me throughout.

I reached out to my LABC to get an idea of the likely inspection fees, and once they caught wind that I didn't have formal qualifications, they flat out refused to deal with me ("I'm afraid it's a non starter").

Am I right in thinking they've got no choice on the matter, and if I notified them they'd be obliged to come out an inspect it?

Given their behaviour I'm worried they'll act like proper jobsworths, try every trick in the book to trip me up, drag their feet, and probably charge me a small fortune for the inspections.

I'm wondering if I should notify them and force them to do their job, or just get on with it though I'm aware this is illegal and might cause problems when I sell.

Anyone had experience with this?
 
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Am I right in thinking they've got no choice on the matter,
No, it is you who has no choice.

and if I notified them they'd be obliged to come out an inspect it?
Not if they have not sanctioned you doing the work.

Given their behaviour I'm worried they'll act like proper jobsworths, try every trick in the book to trip me up, drag their feet, and probably charge me a small fortune for the inspections.
You won't get that far.

I'm wondering if I should notify them and force them to do their job,
They are doing their job.

or just get on with it though I'm aware this is illegal and might cause problems when I sell.
There you go - or before you sell.
 
No, it is you who has no choice.


Not if they have not sanctioned you doing the work.


You won't get that far.


They are doing their job.


There you go - or before you sell.
You sound just like them :ROFLMAO:

They do not get to "sanction" me, I notify them and they come out to inspect it. They aren't the council - they don't get to approve or reject notifications. Unless you can point me to the section of Part P I'm missing, because I've read it a dozen times..?
 
LABC are under no requirement to accept your application and they are entitled to deem your competency in this matter, you can always look for a private inspector who agrees your competent.

The only bits notifiable if your in England is the cu change and adding new circuits to it.

How old is your current cu unit, does it have any spare ways in it and what state is the current wiring in? Also does it have rcd protection?

If your current wiring is in good condition you could add the two 'new' circuits using fcu's off the existing circuits which wouldn't be notifiable at all.

Again if your current wiring is in good condition you could then get a registered spark to just change the cu which shouldn't be that expensive on its own.
 
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LABC are under no requirement to accept your application and they are entitled to deem your competency in this matter, you can always look for a private inspector who agrees your competent.

The only bits notifiable if your in England is the cu change and adding new circuits to it.

How old is your current cu unit, does it have any spare ways in it and what state is the current wiring in? Also does it have rcd protection?

If your current wiring is in good condition you could add the two 'new' circuits using fcu's off the existing circuits which wouldn't be notifiable at all.

Again if your current wiring is in good condition you could then get a registered spark to just change the cu which shouldn't be that expensive on its own.
I'm not making an application (aka a 'full plans application'), I'm making a notification which, to my knowledge, are two different things. There is no 'approval' process for a notification. Happy to be corrected but please point me to something concrete like a government document..

CU is mid-2000s, plastic, looks like it came out of a happy meal.. definitely want to replace it for safety

I haven't fully inspected the wiring but from what I've seen it was a DIY job already! E.g. where it passes through the ceiling joists, it's just lying on the lath rather than being secured to the joist.

Did consider just getting the CU changed, and that'll come with an EICR, but if I'm going to do the rest of it I might as well do that too...
 
OP - do you have competency and calibrated test equipment ?
Seeing as how competency (whatever that means to you) has no bearing on the legal right to do this work, and the LABC will be the one testing it, neither of your points are relevant...
Again, please correct me if you've got something more solid than the black-and-white of part P..
 
How much do you think they would charge you to test your dubious work?
No clue - that's what I was trying to find out when I contacted them!!! Gosh this is an exasperating discussion...
 
No clue - that's what I was trying to find out when I contacted them!!! Gosh this is an exasperating discussion...

so you don’t realise that you will need test kit to make the change

and you don’t know how much LABC charge

hum …..
 
I reached out to my LABC to get an idea of the likely inspection fees, and once they caught wind that I didn't have formal qualifications, they flat out refused to deal with me ("I'm afraid it's a non starter"). Am I right in thinking they've got no choice on the matter, and if I notified them they'd be obliged to come out an inspect it?
Despite what others have suggested, I'm inclined to agree with you. As you've subsequently said, you're talking about a Building Notice, not 'depositing full plans'.

As far as I am aware, there is no way they can stop you submitting a Building Notice (which is a statement of your intent to do the work), nor any way in which they can 'refuse to accept' such a Notice. Once they have received the Notice, it is for them to decide what (if anything) they want to do about it, which includes deciding whether to 'send someone out to inspect' - but, if they decide not to do that, I would think that becomes 'their problem'. The Planning Portal says:
Once you have given your 'building notice' and informed your local authority that you are about to start work, the work will be inspected as it progresses. You will be advised by the authority if the work does not comply with the building regulations.
... so, once you have submitted the Notice and 'declared your intent, you can start the work, and it would seem to me that if they believe that the work does not comply with regulations (which they can really only determine by inspecting it) they can 'inform you of that', but they cannot say/do anything on the basis of your lack of qualifications or, indeed, on the basis of anything other than that the work is not comnpliant with the Building Regs (and, bearing in mind that all the law actually explicitly requires is compliance with the one sentence which constitutes the entirety of Part P).

I'm sure some other will disagree with some of that!
Given their behaviour I'm worried they'll act like proper jobsworths, try every trick in the book to trip me up, drag their feet, and probably charge me a small fortune for the inspections. .... I'm wondering if I should notify them and force them to do their job,
That, unfortunately, is the crunch. If (as sounds as if it is the case) you subscribe to the personal view I have expressed above, and "force them to do their job", that could well bring out the worst 'Jobsworth' within them and render your life a total nightmare.

As you may be aware, there is theoretically an option to use a 'Building Control Body' other than the LA one, but I've never known of anyone going down that route, so can't really comment on it.
..... or just get on with it though I'm aware this is illegal and might cause problems when I sell.
Whatever our personal views might be, we obviously can't say much about that 'option', but I would make two observations.

Firstly, it would be a pity, and completely contrary to the spirit of 'the system' for someone to adopt that approach because of unreasonable behaviour of an LABC.

Secondly, perhaps of more practical relevance, I don't think that people should be very concerned about "problems when they sell a house" due to notifiable electrical work not having been notified. The only (very) important thing is not to lie, but provided one tells the truth (if only to say that 'no documentation is available' in relation to the electrical work') then it's simply up to a potential buyer to decide what they want to do about it - and I doubt that someone who would otherwise be keen to buy a house would 'pull out' just for that reason - they can always have an EICR undertaken if they so wish. Indeed, even if the work has been notified (with evidence available) some time ago, that would be no prrof that the electrical installation was still 'safe' - only a current EICR could establish that.

Let us know what you decide!

Kind Regards, John
 
Despite what others have suggested, I'm inclined to agree with you. As you've subsequently said, you're talking about a Building Notice, not 'depositing full plans'.

As far as I am aware, there is no way they can stop you submitting a Building Notice (which is a statement of your intent to do the work), nor any way in which they can 'refuse to accept' such a Notice. Once they have received the Notice, it is for them to decide what (if anything) they want to do about it, which includes deciding whether to 'send someone out to inspect' - but, if they decide not to do that, I would think that becomes 'their problem'. The Planning Portal says:

... so, once you have submitted the Notice and 'declared your intent, you can start the work, and it would seem to me that if they believe that the work does not comply with regulations (which they can really only determine by inspecting it) they can 'inform you of that', but they cannot say/do anything on the basis of your lack of qualifications or, indeed, on the basis of anything other than that the work is not comnpliant with the Building Regs (and, bearing in mind that all the law actually explicitly requires is compliance with the one sentence which constitutes the entirety of Part P).

I'm sure some other will disagree with some of that!

That, unfortunately, is the crunch. If (as sounds as if it is the case) you subscribe to the personal view I have expressed above, and "force them to do their job", that could well bring out the worst 'Jobsworth' within them and render your life a total nightmare.

As you may be aware, there is theoretically an option to use a 'Building Control Body' other than the LA one, but I've never known of anyone going down that route, so can't really comment on it.

Whatever our personal views might be, we obviously can't say much about that 'option', but I would make two observations.

Firstly, it would be a pity, and completely contrary to the spirit of 'the system' for someone to adopt that approach because of unreasonable behaviour of an LABC.

Secondly, perhaps of more practical relevance, I don't think that people should be very concerned about "problems when they sell a house" due to notifiable electrical work not having been notified. The only (very) important thing is not to lie, but provided one tells the truth (if only to say that 'no documentation is available' in relation to the electrical work') then it's simply up to a potential buyer to decide what they want to do about it - and I doubt that someone who would otherwise be keen to buy a house would 'pull out' just for that reason - they can always have an EICR undertaken if they so wish. Indeed, even if the work has been notified (with evidence available) some time ago, that would be no prrof that the electrical installation was still 'safe' - only a current EICR could establish that.

Let us know what you decide!

Kind Regards, John
John, thanks very much for the thorough response and finally bringing some sense into this thread. I've been scouting the internet for WEEKS and the number of very confident sounding people who don't seem to have even read part P is astounding. Also, if you're the same J.W. as on YouTube, I'm also the guy that asked this question on one of your vids the other day funnily enough - didn't know you were on these forums.

You're right that it would be a pity, and I find it extremely ironic that all this bureaucracy and regulation designed, ostensibly, to make electrical work safer is incentivising well-meaning but unqualified people like me to ignore it altogether and go it alone without professional oversight..

I really did want to do it above board because the lack of an EICR was one of several red flags on my survey for this place before buying, and I want the next buyer's survey to come back all green to avoid any issues.

Will keep this thread updated. As well as emailing the LABC I've reached out to the DLUHC (or whatever they're called next week..) for clarification and will try calling the LABC if they keep dodging me..
 
John, thanks very much for the thorough response and finally bringing some sense into this thread. I've been scouting the internet for WEEKS and the number of very confident sounding people who don't seem to have even read part P is astounding.
You're welcome
Also, if you're the same J.W. as on YouTube, I'm also the guy that asked this question on one of your vids the other day funnily enough - didn't know you were on these forums.
No, I'm not him - that JW does participate in this forum, as "flameport"
You're right that it would be a pity, and I find it extremely ironic that all this bureaucracy and regulation designed, ostensibly, to make electrical work safer is incentivising well-meaning but unqualified people like me to ignore it altogether and go it alone without professional oversight..
Exactly my point - it's a pretty ridiculous irony.
I really did want to do it above board because the lack of an EICR was one of several red flags on my survey for this place before buying, and I want the next buyer's survey to come back all green to avoid any issues.
Fair enough - but you illustrate the point I made - that's it's not really a very big deal - since you, for one, bought the property despite the absence of an EICR - and, as I said (and just like an MOT) an EICR proves nothing unless it is very recent.
Will keep this thread updated. As well as emailing the LABC I've reached out to the DLUHC (or whatever they're called next week..) for clarification and will try calling the LABC if they keep dodging me..
As I said, although I have no experience of it, you might want to look into the possibility of using a different 'Building Control Body' (whoever they may be - Mr Google probably knows!).

Good luck!

Kind Regards, John
 
not if the LA undertake, or sub-contract, the testing

wrong.

how is the op expected to track and repair faults in the existing wiring ?

sure he could end up with a new cu and one where the RCDs constantly trip before the formal testing takes place
 

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