LN reverse in Kitchen
- Thread starter jason1976
- Start date
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When the main switch is off on the CU, the only bit that is live inside it is the live wire coming from the meter to that main switch. Taking the front off to look inside is not too dangerous. I can understand your reticence though!
Aye, its only recently suppliers have been fitting isolators between meter and customer equipment.
It is usually possible to remove the cover and inspect the terminations without risking inadvertent contact with live parts- assuming the CU has a main switch, if that is switched OFF then the only live part is the largish supply cables coming into the CU and they should have internal covers on them as well.
Your reluctance is quite understandable- finding a good electrician is like finding any other trades people- go for recommendations from your friends and family or neighbours who you get on with. Next step- enquire at your local electrical wholesalers. The DIY sheds sometimes have links to local trades, that's worth an enquire if you're stuck (the job won't be the cheapest but you've got the comfort of a big name to come back at if anything goes wrong).
It is usually possible to remove the cover and inspect the terminations without risking inadvertent contact with live parts- assuming the CU has a main switch, if that is switched OFF then the only live part is the largish supply cables coming into the CU and they should have internal covers on them as well.
Your reluctance is quite understandable- finding a good electrician is like finding any other trades people- go for recommendations from your friends and family or neighbours who you get on with. Next step- enquire at your local electrical wholesalers. The DIY sheds sometimes have links to local trades, that's worth an enquire if you're stuck (the job won't be the cheapest but you've got the comfort of a big name to come back at if anything goes wrong).
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Depends where you are, who you get and whether you get them in on a callout or as a scheduled job. If you can arrange things (safely) so you can run for a few days without using those sockets (extension cable(s) from the cooker point socket, plug them in one at a time) you'll get a much better rate.
And without knowing how far it is from kitchen to CU and how the cables are routed it is a bit tricky to determine how long it would take to do the worst case and throw a new cable in. Budget £200 (as a job, not as a callout) and keep your fingers crossed.
BEARTRAPS.
Some electricians will tell you 'oooh you need a new consumer unit mate, that one's too old, needs to be metal-clad now'. Untrue- if you are replacing the thing then yes it has to be metal now, if you're not replacing it then it only needs to comply with regs as they were at the time of installation.
'Ooh, this needs an RCD on it, your old CU won't take one, have to have a full rewire, metal box, etc etc'. Again untrue UNLESS the electrician installs a new cable that is buried less than 50mm behind a wall surface (there are other getouts but generally if the wire isn't on the surface then THAT CIRCUIT will require RCD protection. That can be achieved in several ways, only one requiring a new CU.
'Oooh, this is all old, need a full rewire etc etc'. If they say this after spending about an hour with some test gear actually measuring the performance of the wiring then have a think about it and remind them that they're here to fix the absent earth in the kitchen. If they say this after opening the CU and seeing red and black wires (assuming we are on PVC and not the old rubber or lead sheathed stuff) then take with pinch of salt.
Good luck- me I'd have had the lid off the CU by now and then be lifting floorboards looking for shonky junction boxes (kitchen extensions were notorious for shoddy bodges by kitchen fitters)
And without knowing how far it is from kitchen to CU and how the cables are routed it is a bit tricky to determine how long it would take to do the worst case and throw a new cable in. Budget £200 (as a job, not as a callout) and keep your fingers crossed.
BEARTRAPS.
Some electricians will tell you 'oooh you need a new consumer unit mate, that one's too old, needs to be metal-clad now'. Untrue- if you are replacing the thing then yes it has to be metal now, if you're not replacing it then it only needs to comply with regs as they were at the time of installation.
'Ooh, this needs an RCD on it, your old CU won't take one, have to have a full rewire, metal box, etc etc'. Again untrue UNLESS the electrician installs a new cable that is buried less than 50mm behind a wall surface (there are other getouts but generally if the wire isn't on the surface then THAT CIRCUIT will require RCD protection. That can be achieved in several ways, only one requiring a new CU.
'Oooh, this is all old, need a full rewire etc etc'. If they say this after spending about an hour with some test gear actually measuring the performance of the wiring then have a think about it and remind them that they're here to fix the absent earth in the kitchen. If they say this after opening the CU and seeing red and black wires (assuming we are on PVC and not the old rubber or lead sheathed stuff) then take with pinch of salt.
Good luck- me I'd have had the lid off the CU by now and then be lifting floorboards looking for shonky junction boxes (kitchen extensions were notorious for shoddy bodges by kitchen fitters)
But don't tell them to mount their velocipede with their need a new CU, need a rewire, until after they have diagnosed the problem. Even if they don't fix it, at least you'll know what it is.
Hi oldbutnotdead I have checked the Consumer Unit all earths seem to be connected ok and cant see anything obviously wrong in there. The only thing I have not checked is washing machine sockets and the 3 fused switches for the appliances. Would there be a junction box somewhere as it is still the original kitchen when the house was built in 1993. If I need an electrician I will tell him I want a socket changed in the kitchen and tell about what ive found when he comes I wont call one out as an emergency.
Good for you. Yes it is worth checking the washing machine socket. And the 3 fused spurs for the appliances. Check everything on that circuit- if you're lucky then you'll find the missing earth in there. Didn't realise it was a relatively modern house- there shouldn't be any stealth junction boxes if it is as installed, check the stuff you can see and haven't checked first. When you pull the washing machine out, get a torch and a mirror and use them to have a peer about in the service void behind the units- you might see some nasties back there!
If you end up calling someone in, as long as you don't call them as an emergency then the cost ought to be the same. I'd be tempted to tell them what the issue is (with a bit more detail like how far it is from CU to kitchen) and see if they'll give you a worst-case price. Your plan is quite good, be prepared for whoever you call out to repeat your investigation work whatever you tell them (most people have been burnt like that before)
If you end up calling someone in, as long as you don't call them as an emergency then the cost ought to be the same. I'd be tempted to tell them what the issue is (with a bit more detail like how far it is from CU to kitchen) and see if they'll give you a worst-case price. Your plan is quite good, be prepared for whoever you call out to repeat your investigation work whatever you tell them (most people have been burnt like that before)
I am going to check those fused spurs and washing machine socket now. Its about 15 to 20 feet from CU to kitchen. I will tell electrician the issue etc and see what he says.
Update I have dragged the washing machine out and checked its socket and have also checked all the fused spurs too and all look ok to me. Looks like calling an electrician out now.
Update I have dragged the washing machine out and checked its socket and have also checked all the fused spurs too and all look ok to me. Looks like calling an electrician out now.
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Hi I have had an electrician out he has checked all the sockets and found the same as me all wired ok. He checked the CU and found no continuity on the live, neutral and earth circuit too so it appears there is a break in the kitchen ring main somewhere.
Mmmm, that could be irritating to sort out (and probably time consuming to trace as well)- if all sockets, spurs etc have been checked and are good then somewhere there's either a cable with a gap in it (low odds IMHO) or a hidden nasty that's come undone (shonky junction box behind a unit or under a floor or something like).
I have taken up the floorboards on my landing where there was a lump in the floor. The lump was caused by cables on to of the downstairs brickwork with a bit of wood on top of the cables and then the floorboards on top of that effectively squashing the cable between the wood and brick work so every time you walk on it the cables get squashed more.
Well that bodes well for the state of the rest of the installation 
Do you think where the cables have been crushed between the brick and floorboard that the cable could have been damaged causing the problem i have. Also the electrician i had round wants to run a kitchen ring main from the consumer unit along the garage floor through the back of the downstairs toilet and into the kitchen around the kitchen under the units and up to the sockets instead of going from upstairs under the floorboards. Also there is on socket that cant be reached by this method on on the wall between the kitchen and dining room so he wants to connect this one to the one in my dining room. Does this all sound Ok. The cost for this will be £593.
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