D
Doctor Drivel
Not scientific at all, and water systems are engineering You clearly don't know. It is totally OBJECTIVE
You got laced!!!!!!!
Megaflo or something else
- Thread starter Extendingsoon
- Start date
Not scientific at all, and water systems are engineering You clearly don't know. It is totally OBJECTIVE
You got laced!!!!!!!
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D
Doctor Drivel
You got laced by an experienced engineer - take note!!!!!
..and that was just off the top of my head, and could go further and further.
Best just say thanks, I never knew all that.
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It's not wit that is the issue - it's knowledge and facts
There's absolutely MASSES wrong with what Dr D says in his bold blue diatribe. He's clearly not being objective.
Some of it's correct, but with so much nonsense and paranoia - Don't believe a word the man says.
(he sas it was all off the top of his head but has had to edit it 12 times so far!)
In most situations, you'll get a cheaper system that's easier to own and with super performance, from an unvented cylinder.
Some of it's correct, but with so much nonsense and paranoia - Don't believe a word the man says.
(he sas it was all off the top of his head but has had to edit it 12 times so far!)
In most situations, you'll get a cheaper system that's easier to own and with super performance, from an unvented cylinder.
D
Doctor Drivel
"heatingman":----
Thermal stores operates on incoming mains pressure. Unvented governed at 3 bar in Surrey you will be lucky to get 3 bar anyway.
You need a pressure reducer - another expensive device to go wrong. Mains pressures in many parts of the country are way over 3 bar and up to 8 and 9. A heat bank can take up to 10 bar and no pressure reducers.
Unvented requires a G3 installer.
Which costs - rip off.
Any idiot can install a thermal store.
A great advantage as no rip-off merchant is involved.
Unvented megaflow comes with 25 year warranty on cylinder.
Only if you prove you have had annual service each year - which costs.
Thermal store, not listed in merchants catalouge. Wonder why?
Some of the maker - there are more. Ring them. Some sell direct, others will give a list of suppliers. Do a Google for on-line suppliers. Many will make to order.
http://www.newarkcyl.freeserve.co.uk
http://www.mcdonald-engineers.com
http://www.copperform.co.uk/
http://www.telford-group.com
http://www.elsonhotwater.co.uk/ (make square thermals stores)
http://www.heatweb.com (can custom make and make squaure heat banks)
http://www.albion-online.co.uk
http://www.range-cylinders.co.uk (the flowmax)
http://www.gledhill.net (an extensive range)
http://www.chelmerheating.co.uk
http://www.nu-heat.co.uk (SS pressurised heat bank)
Unvented cylinder will require checking on annual basis, have done with boiler service, max 1 hour.
...and you charge. Heat banks are service free.
Thermal store will require checking on annual basis,
Heat banks are service free.
Unvented has temp/pressure fail safe and discharge devices. Can blow up, so can your car tv microwave boiler, the list is endless.
So two wrongs make aright. What twisted logic.
A thermal store can split/corrode leak, water could be 90 deg c.
An unvented cylinder can split/leak and do the same. Duh!!!
A thermal store will raise the incoming water by 35 deg c, flow rate fluctuates due to thermal temp/incoming temp/resistence plate ex, coil.
Total drivel!!! Temperatures is control by blending valves or modulating pumps.
Unvented not overly affected by water hardness/scale[/u]
Unvented cylinders can heavily scale up inside.
Thermal store coil/plate ex affected by water hardness/scale
A heat bank resists scale as the plate on the plate heat exchanger flex. If scaling occurs the plate can be unscrewed and the plate easily de-scaled.
Does that help.
NO. It was mainly wrong.
PS remember 35 deg c temp rise, same principal as all combination boilers.
Plate heat exchangers operate at various temp rises.
And you cant just fit TRV's on the zones, its a requirement to have a boiler interlock.
A heat bank has a boiler interlock - the cylinder stat(s) This proves you know sweet FA about the subject.
To save energy. If its a big property it will require zoning.
Heat banks lend themselves briliantly for CH zoning.
If your worried about breakdowns have a couple of boilers linked via a low loss header on alternating cycles lead & lag + (a spare in a box)
A heat bank can have two boilers heating the cylinder directly, and no inefficient expensive header. Also electric immersions in the cylinder give full CH & DHW backup.
Thermal stores operates on incoming mains pressure. Unvented governed at 3 bar in Surrey you will be lucky to get 3 bar anyway.
You need a pressure reducer - another expensive device to go wrong. Mains pressures in many parts of the country are way over 3 bar and up to 8 and 9. A heat bank can take up to 10 bar and no pressure reducers.
Unvented requires a G3 installer.
Which costs - rip off.
Any idiot can install a thermal store.
A great advantage as no rip-off merchant is involved.
Unvented megaflow comes with 25 year warranty on cylinder.
Only if you prove you have had annual service each year - which costs.
Thermal store, not listed in merchants catalouge. Wonder why?
Some of the maker - there are more. Ring them. Some sell direct, others will give a list of suppliers. Do a Google for on-line suppliers. Many will make to order.
http://www.newarkcyl.freeserve.co.uk
http://www.mcdonald-engineers.com
http://www.copperform.co.uk/
http://www.telford-group.com
http://www.elsonhotwater.co.uk/ (make square thermals stores)
http://www.heatweb.com (can custom make and make squaure heat banks)
http://www.albion-online.co.uk
http://www.range-cylinders.co.uk (the flowmax)
http://www.gledhill.net (an extensive range)
http://www.chelmerheating.co.uk
http://www.nu-heat.co.uk (SS pressurised heat bank)
Unvented cylinder will require checking on annual basis, have done with boiler service, max 1 hour.
...and you charge. Heat banks are service free.
Thermal store will require checking on annual basis,
Heat banks are service free.
Unvented has temp/pressure fail safe and discharge devices. Can blow up, so can your car tv microwave boiler, the list is endless.
So two wrongs make aright. What twisted logic.
A thermal store can split/corrode leak, water could be 90 deg c.
An unvented cylinder can split/leak and do the same. Duh!!!
A thermal store will raise the incoming water by 35 deg c, flow rate fluctuates due to thermal temp/incoming temp/resistence plate ex, coil.
Total drivel!!! Temperatures is control by blending valves or modulating pumps.
Unvented not overly affected by water hardness/scale[/u]
Unvented cylinders can heavily scale up inside.
Thermal store coil/plate ex affected by water hardness/scale
A heat bank resists scale as the plate on the plate heat exchanger flex. If scaling occurs the plate can be unscrewed and the plate easily de-scaled.
Does that help.
NO. It was mainly wrong.
PS remember 35 deg c temp rise, same principal as all combination boilers.
Plate heat exchangers operate at various temp rises.
And you cant just fit TRV's on the zones, its a requirement to have a boiler interlock.
A heat bank has a boiler interlock - the cylinder stat(s) This proves you know sweet FA about the subject.
To save energy. If its a big property it will require zoning.
Heat banks lend themselves briliantly for CH zoning.
If your worried about breakdowns have a couple of boilers linked via a low loss header on alternating cycles lead & lag + (a spare in a box)
A heat bank can have two boilers heating the cylinder directly, and no inefficient expensive header. Also electric immersions in the cylinder give full CH & DHW backup.
D
Doctor Drivel
No broadbrush derogatory comments please. Where is it wrong?
All of it is correct.
Another sweeping unjustified statement...as that is all you hear on these forums. No intelligent engineer would prattle such drivel.
D
Doctor Drivel
...of which they are devoid.
Thanks Dr D. A good response to Heatingman. So we have some issues that are answered and some still open:
1. The Heat bank can operate from 1 bar pressure so I should be ok with that.
2. We have a price for the Megaflo - what about your heat bank option Dr D?
3. I thought the heat bank also came with a 25yr guarantee?
4. Dr D you offer a solution to poor hot wat flow rates, as suggested by Heatingman. By having a solution this seems to accept that there is a problem - true?
5. De D refutes the suggestion of scale build up - is this true ? if so is this guaranteed Dr D
6. Dr D - I'm a bit concerned by 'usable hot water in a matter of minutes' - this conflicts with 'instant high pressure hot water' - which is true.
Heatingman - not sure of the relevance of the 35 deg temp rise - being a layman - why is this a problem.
I like the idea of running the CH off the heat bank as well - surely that is better? If I understood correctly this was almost instant CH?
Money is not an issue here within reason. I want what is best.
1. The Heat bank can operate from 1 bar pressure so I should be ok with that.
2. We have a price for the Megaflo - what about your heat bank option Dr D?
3. I thought the heat bank also came with a 25yr guarantee?
4. Dr D you offer a solution to poor hot wat flow rates, as suggested by Heatingman. By having a solution this seems to accept that there is a problem - true?
5. De D refutes the suggestion of scale build up - is this true ? if so is this guaranteed Dr D
6. Dr D - I'm a bit concerned by 'usable hot water in a matter of minutes' - this conflicts with 'instant high pressure hot water' - which is true.
Heatingman - not sure of the relevance of the 35 deg temp rise - being a layman - why is this a problem.
I like the idea of running the CH off the heat bank as well - surely that is better? If I understood correctly this was almost instant CH?
Money is not an issue here within reason. I want what is best.
I get the impression heat banks are perhaps a decent commercial proposition but not yet widely adopted in the home...
No one answered my question why doesn't a megaflo have a failsafe stat?
And what's wrong with a vented hot water tank??
No one answered my question why doesn't a megaflo have a failsafe stat?
And what's wrong with a vented hot water tank??
Unvented cylinders have multiple safety devices. A "failsafe" stat is nothing of the sort, just a nomal one in series with a non-resetting one set at about 90.
Heat banks are not at all popular in commercial systems - ask yourself why. Drivel will probably now find a few, but I can't remember when I last saw one.
Traditional vented hot water storage is low pressure.
Heat banks are not at all popular in commercial systems - ask yourself why. Drivel will probably now find a few, but I can't remember when I last saw one.
Traditional vented hot water storage is low pressure.
D
Doctor Drivel
See makers, I gave a list.
Depends on makers.
Poor flowrates are due to
1. Poor mains pressures.
2. Poor installation.
Scale can only accumulate in the plate heat exchanger which is the size of book. They resist scale build up because the plates flex. In a hard water areas anti-scale measures should be taken irrespective of system type.
It is instant, however it should say, usable within minutes of heat up from cold. Been fixed.
It isn't a problem
Yes the rads are warm within a few minutes in the morning. The buffer effect should not be underestimated.
Look into heat banks. Properly designed and installed they are brilliant.
D
Doctor Drivel
Vented Heat banks are failsafe in that if all safety device fail it will not explode.
because of pure ignorance. They are popular in Germany.
Unvented cylinders have multiple safety devices. A "failsafe" stat is nothing of the sort, just a nomal one in series with a non-resetting one set at about 90.
Heat banks are not at all popular in commercial systems - ask yourself why. (coz they're sh!te I'm guessing
Traditional vented hot water storage is low pressure.
Cheers ChrisR, so its still possible the second stat could fail? Not so good afterall...
So is there not much difference between vented hotwater+pump and megaflo?
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