Mower pull cord retraction problem

[Rollerball]

Mower pull cord retraction problem

I have a Honda HRB 423 petrol mower, here's an example of one on Ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-HRB...3?pt=UK_Garden_Lawnmowers&hash=item27e3f8e433

Recently the pull cord hasn’t been springing back in all the way after being pulled. It’s intermittent: sometimes it’s fine, sometimes a few inches of the cord just dangles after pulling it.

So I decided to take a look at it – only three bolts need to be removed to take off the pull cord assembly. Took a look inside, squirted in some 3-in-1 oil but still no change.

So I decided to dismantle it, spring and all. I removed the centre bolt – this was extremely tight – and dismantled, cleaned and lubricated all of it.

Then I reassembled it, but this is where the problem begins. If I tighten up the main retaining bolt all the way the cord won’t pull at all. Nothing will move. If I loosen the bolt then it pulls and springs back just fine, but I can’t of course leave it like that as the bolt and circular retaining piece etc will shake loose and end up clattering around inside the engine mech – not a good idea of course!

So what to do?

I’m pretty certain that I’ve assembled the spring, cord mech, etc correctly. Or maybe I haven’t .....?

My main thought is that perhaps the retaining bolt was originally held in place with some thread locking solution, so the bolt is partly tightened but not all the way, hence enabling the cord mechanism to turn. Is that possible?

Here’s some pictures – they were taken after I had disassembled and reassembled it.

This is with the mech assembled:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/Dalek99999/P5170055.jpg

This is with me twisting the retaining disc and the plastic piece (with it’s own little spring) visible. This moves out a bit if the metal disc is twisted. Not sure what this does exactly, but this too only moves if the bolt is loosened:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/Dalek99999/P5170057.jpg

This is with the bolt removed and the circular disc (placed upside down) put to one side for reference, the plastic piece (which has a tiny spring) is still in place:

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g319/Dalek99999/P5170060.jpg

Any ideas please anyone? Is there a detailed service manual online perhaps with exploded views of all parts?

Thanks

Addendum: Just looking at this YouTube vid, mech seems the same:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3ZMVFi0yqY

On that one the white plastic piece is sticking out when he removes the mech, while mine is in. Perhaps that's the problem with mine, ie the white plastic part is IN on mine, ie I've assembled that part wrong?

 

[munchingB]

why cant you leave the bolt loose if thats the issue?
how far can you pull the cord out?

i would have pulled the cord out all the way-held the recoil in place wound up to its maximum springyness, take the cord off and then attach it maybe a little smaller.

the spring is working doing it is supposed to-but not all the time?

so the main recoil spring is fine.

its just your cord-wound its self back a funny way.

 

[Rollerball]

If I leave the bolt loose it will vibrate off and it, the metal retaining disc, the plastic 'lever' and its tiny spring will end up flying around inside the mower.

Good point about the rope, but I didn't rewind it - although maybe I should have.

I am curious about that sprung-loaded plastic lever though, as seen in the video that I posted it perhaps should be out by default, not in?

 

[munchingB]

the lever you talk about only needs to be out when you pull it in the correct direction to start it. when you let the cord back it it closes anyway.

it comes out when you pull it and hooks on and spins the flywheel, it retracts and spins back when you let go.

as long as it moves in and out freely i wouldnt give it a second thought.

 

[Rollerball]

I see, thanks.

It only goes in/out if the main bolt is loose, just like the spindle (and hence cord pull) only works when the bolt is loose.

 

[Trazor]

As the bolt was tight when you removed it, and the mechanism still worked somewhat, this suggests incorrect reassembly.

I think you need to check the parts/ assembly carefully.

If all else fails try a small washer under the cap to gain some space.

 

[Rollerball]

Yeah, I agree - I've done something wrong somewhere.

 

[Burnerman]

When you undid the cental screw, a spacer (washer) will likely have dropped into the spring retaining cup....this will cause the recoil to jam.
The centre screw must be tight.
See the notch on the plastic pulley? Thats where you pass the starting cord to tension the thing up - so the recoil is nice and positive.
Have you had this machine from new?
If you're not happy with what you have, you can get a complete recoil system from GHS - a pattern but quality part which comes complete with a cord and pull handle.
John

 

[Rollerball]

I didn't see any spacer, but will re-check when I take it apart again today.

Yes, have had the machine from new (it's about 15 years old I think).

Thanks for the tip regarding buying a new recoil mech from GHS, not sure which one I would need though.

Don't think this one will do:

http://www.gardenhirespares.co.uk/product/579

it also looks a little different underneath (probably just a different design though, but maybe still compatible?)

Not sure about this one:

http://www.gardenhirespares.co.uk/product/3504

or this:

http://www.gardenhirespares.co.uk/product/8636

But that's only going by the appearance of the unit from the top (which does look the same as my current one).

No idea of the engine make on this mower either.

Edit: here's an exploded diagram of the recoil starter that I have:

http://www.lingshondaparts.com/pe/h...k_01=17VA9041&block_02=E 0601&block_03=31223

That has the exact same parts as mine, no more, no less.

Note: that's for an HRB423 model PDE - there are loads of HRB423 models and I just chose that one (PDE) at random. Must check my mower for the model and serial no.

 

[Rollerball]

Well, I give up - just spent nearly two bloody frustrating hours on the assembly. Found out where I was going wrong with the spring placement, but it still sticks at times. The spring must be knackered (just like me).

Given the utter hassle I had with this I don't just want to just buy a new spring, I want to go for a complete new recoil assembly as outlined in my message above. The problem is that I don't know which one to buy.

I can't see a serial number anywhere on the mower, just the model number: Honda HRB 423.

Any ideas please?

 

[munchingB]

i think your mower has a gv100 engine..?

whereabouts in the world are you?

someone will come do your lawn for you : )

 

[Rollerball]

Not sure which engine it has, can't see a reference number anywhere on it.

I'm in south west Wales.

 

[Burnerman]

The engine number of your machine is engraved on the aluminium crankcase casting......not the easiest thing to spot!
John

 

[Rollerball]

Ta. Will take another look tomorrow.