New busbar for split-load consumer unit converted to all RCBO

[SUNRAY]

Which is pretty useless to point out without telling me what's wrong about what I am saying.

Just in case you don't understand; you have had so many things pointed out that you dispute there is little point in you continuing to read or post in the thread.

 

[flameport]

The facts:
The consumer unit was obsolete before any alterations were made.
Parts for it do not exist, and attempts to shove other random parts in there are not valid and never can be.
The alterations have made it much worse, and continuing to attempt modifications there is putting everyone in that building at risk of injury or death by electric shock, fire, and arc flash.

The solution:
Get the main fuse replaced, call 105 to arrange. Your energy supplier will NOT be replacing it, as it's nothing to do with them.
Then have a new consumer unit installed by someone who actually knows what they are doing.

 

[JohnW2]

Those old hagers had the busbar clipped in to the moulding of the case and a half din rail to hold the breakers in place. The clips would often bust off and the whole circuit breaker assembly was free to flap about and just fall off the din rail.

Although I've never seen such an animal, that was (as above) my very fear, and why that approach didn't sound very 'satisfactory'; to me.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

I have a slightly different interpretation, What I have seen so far is (may not be in correct order) :

"Vive la difference", but I would say that our viewpoints are more than 'slightly' different. All the things you goon to list relate to how the OP has reacted to what he has been told/advised, none of which is necessary directly related to 'competence'.

I would have no problem if (as has been done) people were merely telling him how things 'should' ('ideally') be done, but I am less happy with him being regarded as 'incompetent' if he chooses to take a different approach.

I'm not going to go into any details of things I have done in my time, let alone what I would do in the OP's situation, but it sounds as if, if I did, you would probably regard me as being at least as 'incompetent' as you believe the OP to be, even though I've never done, nor contemplated doing, anything with which I was not perfectly confident about 'how safe' it was.

So My conclusion is (at this point I'm really biting my tongue to avoid being nasty) this character is one who is not looking for help,

As above, the world would be a boring place if we didn't have varying opinions! You may consider me to be naïve but I tend to 'give people the benefit of the doubt' unless/until I have strong reasons for thinking otherwise.

In all sorts of fields, I often ask for information/advice/help, but when I received it I then consider the information/advice (and arguments for it) and decide whether or not I am going to follow that advice. However, if my considered decision is not to follow that advice, I would not say that I was 'ignoring' it - rather I was 'taking it into account' when making my own decision (based on all the 'inputs').

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

"Vive la difference", but I would say that our viewpoints are more than 'slightly' different. All the things you goon to list relate to how the OP has reacted to what he has been told/advised, none of which is necessary directly related to 'competence'.

I'm sure you noticed my first comment as a reply to you followed by my reaction in post #25, edited here

...
IF you are competent to work in consumer units you would not have to ask such questions ... yes this is a DIY advice site and if you read a couple of dozen threads you will see we offer lots and lots of advice on how to do things properly and safely. When we start getting questions such as yours, we offer advice on how to resolve your situation properly and safely and indeed that is what has already happened but you chose to criticise the correct advice.

You have posted pictures of a very reasonable consumer unit installation before you started botching, seeing that my first reaction would have been to send a private message to ask for your address as I have random lengths of suitable bussbar and would have simply popped what you required in the post. Seeing your botch ... my instant reaction is simple; No way am I going to aid and abet such incompetence.

I even made the offer

Apologies to the other participants of this thread If I've overstepped the mark, let me know and I'll happily remove.

however 4 other posters seemed to agree, actually I thought it received 4 likes but only looks like 3.

I would have no problem if (as has been done) people were merely telling him how things 'should' ('ideally') be done, but I am less happy with him being regarded as 'incompetent' if he chooses to take a different approach.

In my opinion OP has been given some of that advice you mention but appeared not to make any attempt to consider advise offered but instead criticised it and has made it quite clear he has no intention of following any of it and proceeding with continuing his crusade to completely ignore any useful advice.

It's quite clear from my original post that I was asking for ideas on how to fix it myself. I don't want to be given this advice because it's entirely different from the advice I was asking for. I am going to do it myself anyway, unless presented with reasons I wasn't aware of yet.

...

In any case, I'll try to finish the job myself then. I do want to install an entirely new CU once Octopus has fixed the main fuse and installed an isolator. The current consumer unit is like swiss cheese with holes drilled into it at several spots. Might post a photo when I have finished fitting a better busbar and after organizing the wiring. And that will then need to do for a while until I can fit a new CU.

I'm not going to go into any details of things I have done in my time, let alone what I would do in the OP's situation, but it sounds as if, if I did, you would probably regard me as being at least as 'incompetent' as you believe the OP to be, even though I've never done, nor contemplated doing, anything with which I was not perfectly confident about 'how safe' it was.

I dare say not a lot different to me, particularly for temporary situations but then I'd do the various assessments and plan accordingly.

As above, the world would be a boring place if we didn't have varying opinions! You may consider me to be naïve but I tend to 'give people the benefit of the doubt' unless/until I have strong reasons for thinking otherwise.

Oh yes and I'll make the same claim. A while back we had a new Engineer join the company and straight away I heard strong complaints/objections etc. First time I went on site with him I, as always, started with a clean sheet, and things seemed OK. He seemed rather brusk but nothing outlandish and I even commented to others he seemed alright. Couple of days later on site with him again, that evening I spoke to my supervisor and explained I'd not work with him again, seems that made it all of the 'hands on' staff refusing to work with him.

In all sorts of fields, I often ask for information/advice/help, but when I received it I then consider the information/advice (and arguments for it) and decide whether or not I am going to follow that advice. However, if my considered decision is not to follow that advice, I would not say that I was 'ignoring' it - rather I was 'taking it into account' when making my own decision (based on all the 'inputs').

Kind Regards, John

And I have done and will continue to do the same, none of us know everything and, despite best efforts, advice may not be appropriate. Frequently where the advisor is not aware of the situation in hand.

I imagine OP feels he is currently in this position, however I have my doubts.

Anyway my current opinion is we are all wasting our time and there is no point in continuing this thread and invite mods to lock it.

 

[JohnW2]

And I have done and will continue to do the same, none of us know everything and, despite best efforts, advice may not be appropriate. Frequently where the advisor is not aware of the situation in hand. ..... I imagine OP feels he is currently in this position, however I have my doubts.

I don't recall it ever having happened to me here to a serious extent, but I can see that I could only too easily end up in a similar position to the OP of this thread.

In relation to a field about which I knew little/nothing, I would, indeed, ask people to tell me 'how to do it', and I would act in accordance with the 'instructions' I received if they were 'consistent'. It would be a bit more of a problem if I received differing, maybe even incompatible, 'instructions' from different people, since I would then have to find some way of decided which 'instructions' to follow!

However, in terms of a field about which I felt that I knew a fair bit (and I would count 'Electrics' amongst them), I would not ask 'how to do it' but, rather would ask about things (related to specific aspects) I needed to take into consideration when making my own decision about what I would do. If people then started throwing in unsolicited comments about aspects I had not asked about, then the whole discussion could get more complicated, and less 'pleasant' - which might deter me from asking for advice in the future.

In terms of this thread, the OP may well have already decided ('for better or for worse') what he was ('conceptually') going to do, since his initial question was (only) about sourcing an appropriate busbar. Everything else which has happened has been the result of 'unsolicited inputs' into the discussion.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

I have looked at a fusebox consumer unit and with the isolator it is less than £40, the problem is the law will not allow a DIY change without paying silly amounts to the LABC, but for some one who does not want to listen to advice, likely he would not be worried about having the right bits of paper, so he may as well change the whole CU.

 

[SUNRAY]

I have looked at a fusebox consumer unit and with the isolator it is less than £40, the problem is the law will not allow a DIY change without paying silly amounts to the LABC, but for some one who does not want to listen to advice, likely he would not be worried about having the right bits of paper, so he may as well change the whole CU.

I believe that is his intention anyway once the isolation issue is resolved

And that will then need to do for a while until I can fit a new CU.

 

[JohnW2]

I have looked at a fusebox consumer unit and with the isolator it is less than £40, the problem is the law will not allow a DIY change without paying silly amounts to the LABC, but for some one who does not want to listen to advice, likely he would not be worried about having the right bits of paper, so he may as well change the whole CU.

I couldn't possible comment on that (in public), but I understand the logic of what you are saying

... but your comment does illustrate the way in which 'rules' may be resulting in (electrically) less satisfactory things being done by some people

Kind Regards, John

 

[robinbanks]

we are all wasting our time and there is no point in continuing this thread and invite mods to lock it.

The other alternative is to exercise some self restraint and voluntarily stop posting in it; we're all adults, capable of identifying a situation where the amount of emotional energy being poured into this thread is seeing no return.

We shouldn't have to have the teacher come along and take our ball away because we just can't stop kicking it at the school windows, and you've got so much useful advice to offer elsewhere I genuinely can't believe you're even enjoying wasting this time

 

[LostDutch]

I have looked at a fusebox consumer unit and with the isolator it is less than £40, the problem is the law will not allow a DIY change without paying silly amounts to the LABC, but for some one who does not want to listen to advice, likely he would not be worried about having the right bits of paper, so he may as well change the whole CU.

What do you mean with right bits of paper? Does a new CU installation with a certification that is important to keep? Depending on the consequence of fitting a new CU DIY, of course having it installed is an option.

 

[LostDutch]

The solution:
Get the main fuse replaced, call 105 to arrange. Your energy supplier will NOT be replacing it, as it's nothing to do with them.
Then have a new consumer unit installed by someone who actually knows what they are doing.

Have gone back and forth between Octopus Energy and UK Power Networks already. Octopus Energy informed me that they needed to contact UK Power Networks and that the job would be delegated back to them by UK Power Networks so that they'd have the authority to do it.

 

[Why Not Indeed]

What do you mean with right bits of paper? Does a new CU installation with a certification that is important to keep? Depending on the consequence of fitting a new CU DIY, of course having it installed is an option.

You may not be familiar with the property conveyancing process in England & Wales, this is the kind of question that gets asked as standard, does the seller have all the relevant bits of paper for the various notifiable works that were done, etc. You can of course just pretend you didn't do anything and the chances of being found out are approximately 0%.

 

[JohnW2]

What do you mean with right bits of paper? Does a new CU installation with a certification that is important to keep?

Eric was merely implying that, if the CU were to be replaced, you might well be happy to 'break the law' by doing so without 'notifying' it (notification being what results in the 'bits of paper').

As I implied in my response to eric, the irony is that, if they are competent (technically and skillfully) to do the work, a person who 'breaks the law' and replaces a CU without notification will end up with a better/safer electrical installation than they would if they 'bodged' an existing CU in order to avoid the need for notification.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

You may not be familiar with the property conveyancing process in England & Wales, this is the kind of question that gets asked as standard, does the seller have all the relevant bits of paper for the various notifiable works that were done, etc.

Indeed - and, of course, one is free to answer (truthfully) that there are no relevant bits of paper available.

You can of course just pretend you didn't do anything and the chances of being found out are approximately 0%.

As we often discuss here, that's the one thing one should not do, since it is potentially (albeit, again, very low risk) legally/financially dangerous.

One must answer the conveyancing questions truthfully. There's no problem in saying that there is no paperwork available, and there's not even a problem in admitting that you did the work yourself 'without notification', but to deny that the work had been done could, theoretically, result in very expensive legal problems.

If one tells the buyer the truth, then it's up to them to decide whether they still want to buy the property, and they are free to commission an EICR before making that decision if they so wish. However, n practice, if someone is otherwise keen on buying a property, they are most unlikely to pull out of the purchase because a CU change was DIYed without notification.

Kind Regards, John