New busbar for split-load consumer unit converted to all RCBO

[markyd1]

And you do actually pick up some good advice

 

[JohnW2]

No......love watching everyone on here going at it

It can be fun, until it gets repetitive and tedious - but how does that viewpoint fit with ...

Not really my intention,

??

Kind Regards, John

 

[robinbanks]

No......love watching everyone on here going at it

Trolling is such a childish pastime

And you do actually pick up some good advice

But at what cost? And what did we really learn this time that we didn't last time?

 

[markyd1]

"Trolling is such a childish pastime".........,and so is being pedantic.........which happens a lot

 

[LostDutch]

I doubt whether the people who invented DIN rails envisioned one 'half' of them being used to just hang things off!

Is that a serious suggestion? All of the devices, complete with busbar, might fall off together when the over was removed? I admit that, even with no rail at all, some bits of chewing gum or Blu Tack might well prevent them falling out when the cover was removed, but ...... !!

How often does one need to do that, and how much 'less easy' would it be if the devices were properly attached to the rail?

Kind Regards, John

The busbar is held in place with plastic clips that are connected to the same component that forms the top (and only) half of the din rail. My garage consumer unit has a similar arrangement, but from the top. Compared to a DIN rail there is very little compatibility with components from other manufacturers.

I only see one advantage to the bottom half of the DIN rail missing. The busbar design saves space compared to using wires, like I used to seeing outside of the UK. So if the CU needs to be small, a busbar could make sense. Terminals on different MCBs that connect with the busbar might be in slightly different locations. If one MCB is in between two MCBs whose terminals are located closer to the front of the device, the bottom of the device will move towards the busbar as you tighten the terminal screw of the connection with the busbar.

Had the MCB been mounted on a busbar as well, you'd be bending the busbar while tightening the terminal screw and it might falsely give you the illusion that the connection to the busbar is secure, even though only half of the terminal is pressing against the busbar.

That being said, I much prefer DIN rails. Busbars make it impossible to mount DIN rail mountable energy monitors like the Shelly 3EM in the CU.

 

[SUNRAY]

I only see one advantage to the bottom half of the DIN rail missing. The busbar design saves space compared to using wires, like I used to seeing outside of the UK. So if the CU needs to be small, a busbar could make sense. Terminals on different MCBs that connect with the busbar might be in slightly different locations. If one MCB is in between two MCBs whose terminals are located closer to the front of the device, the bottom of the device will move towards the busbar as you tighten the terminal screw of the connection with the busbar.

Had the MCB been mounted on a busbar as well, you'd be bending the busbar while tightening the terminal screw and it might falsely give you the illusion that the connection to the busbar is secure, even though only half of the terminal is pressing against the busbar.

That being said, I much prefer DIN rails. Busbars make it impossible to mount DIN rail mountable energy monitors like the Shelly 3EM in the CU.

Basically all I see here is your continued proof of incompetence.

 

[LostDutch]

"Trolling is such a childish pastime".........,and so is being pedantic.........which happens a lot

@robinbanks goes off topic to encourage staying on topic and learning. You're going off topic to undermine a conversation.

So, was he qualified or COMPETENT to do the job?....Gave up following the thread after he nearly burst out crying

Not really my intention, but I knew it would happen

No......love watching everyone on here going at it

Discussing the questioning of compitencies/qualifications after your initial comment didn't help much to answer my original question. But there it was at least not so apparent that they might have been commenting out of a need for attention or validation. It does require some self-insight to realize that this is what's happening, and since you're interpreting me saying that something is hurtful as "nearly burst our crying", I'm suspecting these emotional skills for self insight might be problematic. Maybe suppressed by being cool. Nothing to be ashamed off, it's very common for men especially.

But.. I'll focus on my CU now. Do comment if you're able to help out.

 

[LostDutch]

Basically all I see here is your continued proof of incompetence.

Which is pretty useless to point out without telling me what's wrong about what I am saying.

Additionally, saying that someone is incompetent is of no use to them without clarifying to them what authority you have to arrive at that conclusion. There is no reasoning in your comment, so why should they take your opinion seriously? What qualifications or experience make up your authority on the topic?

 

[JohnW2]

But at what cost? And what did we really learn this time that we didn't last time?

Quite so. These tangential discussions/arguments can be interesting, and sometimes 'valuable', at least on the first occasion they arise - but, as I wrote ...

It can be fun, until it gets repetitive and tedious ....

... from which I think it follows that it's hard to justify deliberately provocation of 'repetitions'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

The busbar is held in place with plastic clips that are connected to the same component that forms the top (and only) half of the din rail. My garage consumer unit has a similar arrangement, but from the top. Compared to a DIN rail there is very little compatibility with components from other manufacturers.

Presumably due to my limited experience, I'm not familiar with that arrangement.

However, it may not be quite as bad as I thought. What do you mean by "held in place with plastic clips"? From what you had said, I was thinking that the devises were just 'hanging off the top of a DIN rail (or "half a DIN rail"),with nothing other than gravity holding them there - given that the usual situation relies on the device being engaged with both top and bottom of the rail. Does this 'clipping' actually hold the device in place in some way?

Kind Regards, John

 

[markyd1]

And yet everybody is still going on about it

 

[JohnW2]

Basically all I see here is your continued proof of incompetence.

I have to say that I would personally not come to that conclusion, particularly not on the basis of the material you posted - which was essentially the OP's discussion of the pros and cons of methods of securing devices within a CU, with him expressing a preference to the approach which I personally feel would be the 'safest'.

As I see it, everything the OP has written (indeed, including the fact that he started this thread) seems to indicate that he wants to do things (electrically) 'satisfactorily and safely', even if not in a conventional/mainstream fashion. If you regard that as indicating his 'incompetence', then I would say that I am personally at least as 'incompetent' as he is - is that your view?

Kind Regards, John

 

[RF Lighting]

Those old hagers had the busbar clipped in to the moulding of the case and a half din rail to hold the breakers in place. The clips would often bust off and the whole circuit breaker assembly was free to flap about and just fall off the din rail.
The whole unit is junk and needs replacing.

 

[SUNRAY]

As I see it, everything the OP has written (indeed, including the fact that he started this thread) seems to indicate that he wants to do things (electrically) 'satisfactorily and safely', even if not in a conventional/mainstream fashion. If you regard that as indicating his 'incompetence', then I would say that I am personally at least as 'incompetent' as he is - is that your view?

I have a slightly different interpretation, What I have seen so far is (may not be in correct order) :

pictures of a botched job

requests for advice

advice given

OP disagrees with advice

more advice given

OP disagrees with advice

more advice given

OP disagrees with advice

OP condemns wiring practices in the country he's working in

OP lies about wiring practices in the country he's negatively comparing ours with

OP blatantly refuses to accept we are trying to help him

I have to say that I would personally not come to that conclusion, particularly not on the basis of the material you posted - which was essentially the OP's discussion of the pros and cons of methods of securing devices within a CU, with him expressing a preference to the approach which I personally feel would be the 'safest'

Kind Regards, John

OP fails to look at MI's (Shelly)


So My conclusion is (at this point I'm really biting my tongue to avoid being nasty) this character is one who is not looking for help, I realised that before my first where I agreed with you

You mean like the ex squaddie I spoke with recently who did a 6 day course

My second post after further nastiness

THE ONLY REASON we start discussing competency in this forum is...

As a 'non qualified' member I see what you have done so far and start shrinking with fear, fear for your safety, fear for the safety of those who follow you and fear for those living in the property.

You have posted pictures of a very reasonable consumer unit installation before you started botching, seeing that my first reaction would have been to send a private message to ask for your address as I have random lengths of suitable bussbar and would have simply popped what you required in the post. Seeing your botch (photos part of my first paragraph) my instant reaction is simple; No way am I going to aid and abet such incompetence.
Doing this sort of work is for skilled people and the reason we as a nation have introduced restrictions on those permitted to do this work is due entirely the the very shoddy work produced by so many and the resulting problem, hazards and fires etcetera.

So where does this leave us?
Well it's extremely simple, DIYers come on here asking for advice and we assess the situation and capabilities and accordingly offer our best advice. When we see those same DIYers then complaining about not being allowed to do some thing and slagging off the competent members for offering the correct advice we tend to use naughty words in our heads about them.

We are not interested in the botches done in other countries or the way botchers are allowed to carry on their dangerous practices.

I'm certainly not going to start listing the multiple errors you have made so far. There is no excuse, not even 'I haven't finished the job'.

Apologies the the other participants of this thread If I've overstepped the mark, let me know and I'll happily remove.

and tens of post later he is still too stupid to understand we are trying to help.

It's blatantly obvious to me this character is totally intending to ignore our wiring regs (and for that matter, if I understand correctly, those of the country he seems to think are superior {or possibly inferior, it's difficult to tell} to ours) continue botching until something actually goes wrong. By then the cost of competency is very likely to far exceed the current cost.

I'm happy to help anyone until they convince me my help is not required. OP convinced me that was the case in post #1, and has only reinforced that with pretty much every subsequent post. However I did offer advice as an opinion that I agreed with others (in the post quoted).

For what it's worth my friend from Kerkelanden is also reading this thread and sending me emails about his posts, I will not be quoting the strength of his words on here.

 

[SUNRAY]

Those old hagers had the busbar clipped in to the moulding of the case and a half din rail to hold the breakers in place. The clips would often bust off and the whole circuit breaker assembly was free to flap about and just fall off the din rail.

I do agree with this but I'd say they only broke when forced. Difficult to see if this particular unit is damaged yet (I imagine it may very well become so with what seems to be going on)

The whole unit is junk and needs replacing.

I wouldn't describe as junk just because of the design, there are many of these still in use giving a perfectly satisfactory service. However I feel it is probably time to replace as it no longer suits the requirements.