No real alternatives to fossil fuels ..

Munroast said:
Out of curiosity - with an air source at pump on a day when the temperature is 4c, what is the output temperature? what temperature would you be able to get the radiators up to.

Also, where are we going to get the workforce from to fit 50,000 heat pumps per week ? (26million homes in 10 years)
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the lake source heat pump going in up
The road from here will give them a temp of 53 degrees c

this is replacing an oil fired system that was working at a temp of 70 degrees c

the amount of power they require to run the pumps means that they have had to upgrade to 3 phase power supply
 
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I'm no scientist but it seems to me that trying to get us to switch to E.V.s & heat pumps or solar panels on roofs is unrealistic due to the practicalities already mentioned in this thread. Instead. of making promises that can't be met at climate summits & saying they will invest millions in subsidies would it not be better to invest it into research into capturing the pollutants & turning them into something useful.
Or am I being too simplistic?
 
jj4091 said:
I'm no scientist but it seems to me that trying to get us to switch to E.V.s & heat pumps or solar panels on roofs is unrealistic due to the practicalities already mentioned in this thread. Instead. of making promises that can't be met at climate summits & saying they will invest millions in subsidies would it not be better to invest it into research into capturing the pollutants & turning them into something useful.
Or am I being too simplistic?
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That's what has been done for ages on carbon capture, it's had huge amounts of subsidies for decades now and has not yet made it to an economical state. There is one plant in Iceland that sucks CO2 out of the air and it is expensive to run, very expensive. We've just announced another batch of subsidies for some more trials and development of carbon capture.

Whilst that's happening, Renewable power is now cheaper than fossil fuels, EVs are cheaper to own and run than ICE vehicles and produce less CO2, and less PM2.5, NOX, etc, etc. They're also dropping in price every year. Petrol and diesel cars are going to disappear in the future because they'll just be too expensive.
 
IT Minion said:
EVs are cheaper to own and run than ICE vehicles and produce less CO2
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If you only consider the vehicle then that is true ( not so sure about the cheaper to own ).

If you consider the costs of generating the electricity and transporting it to the vehicle then maybe the amount of CO2 produced per vehicle mile is not much less than the CO2 produced by an ICE vehicle
 
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There has been mention of no more beef on the basis that this will reduce green house gasses resulting in levels falling and will also improve public health. ;) You can guess which countries are not at all keen on that. Mentioned here along with other related aspects.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-58982445

Mrs GreenParty realising they may get votes is now mentioning the truth about the UK - for net zero we would have to stop importing all sorts of things. That wouldn't half have an impact.

Worse still due to what this shows there are loads of people who are still influenced by what this outlines - a drama but factual.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episodes/m0010s10/the-trick

There was more of a documentary on BBC2.

Given the recent MP stabbing politicians have realised that there is a serious general media problem and that bombastic politics has it's problems. No idea what they will do about it but at least they are now aware. Climategate 2009 is an excellent example of one aspect as has been a number of covid related things. Some of their get votes ideas on the right also smell of the same problem.

Hydrogen is a tricky thing to produce - only likely to be used where there is really no alternative and it will have to be paid for.
 
bernardgreen said:
If you only consider the vehicle then that is true ( not so sure about the cheaper to own ).
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That's what VW says, and as we know they can never tell a lie. :cool:
If you consider the costs of generating the electricity and transporting it to the vehicle then maybe the amount of CO2 produced per vehicle mile is not much less than the CO2 produced by an ICE vehicle
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Nope, it still is better. It's complex to calculate but the studies generally show EVs being cleaner. That's using the UK grid, using Norway they're massively better, the US is slightly worse than ours in average but still beneficial.
 
IT Minion said:
EVs are cheaper to own and run than ICE vehicles and produce less CO2, and less PM2.5, NOX, etc, etc. They're also dropping in price every year. Petrol and diesel cars are going to disappear in the future because they'll just be too expensive.
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Cheaper to run, but extremely expensive to buy, limited range and their emissions don't appear at point of use. Producing them produces massive emissions, producing the infrastructure to support them likewise.
 
Harry Bloomfield said:
How about I were to write up a website suggesting how green conventional fuels are - would it make it any more valid?
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Have you done any peer-reviewed studies into this subject?
Do you have qualifications comparable to this?:
Dr Zeke Hausfather is a climate science contributor for Carbon Brief. Zeke has masters degrees in environmental science from Yale University and Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam, and a PhD in climate science from the University of California, Berkeley. He has spent the past 10 years working as a data scientist and entrepreneur in the cleantech sector.
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Why is it always a f**k up?

Why is there not proper cross-party strategic planning around this sort of stuff YEARS in advance instead of the usual 11th hour panicking.

Not enough GPs. The issue was known about 15 years ago if not more.
Climate change. First came heavily to the fore in the 80s? Now, rightly or wrongly depending on who you believe, it's panic panic panic and 'we've got a decade to sort this!'
A sh1te rail network. Known about for decades ... and still sh1te in places.

There rarely seems to be a well thought out, balanced, coherent plan that we STICK TO. I blame some of this on our changes in government every x years. I'm not saying I think democracy is wrong (far from it) however one lot comes in, new broom sweeps clean, next lot come in and sweep clean with their new broom.

My mum was a teacher for 30 years. Latterly, she got fed up with ever changing policies, strategies, more and more paperwork, with less time for actual teaching.

Sorry gone a bit off topic, but my general point is ... we're supposed to be the most intelligent life-form on earth ... but on the big stuff we can't plan for sh1t.
 
Harry Bloomfield said:
How about I were to write up a website suggesting how green conventional fuels are - would it make it any more valid?
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quite form https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change
Different studies find different results
A recent working paper from a group of German researchers at the thinktank Institute for Economic Research (ifo) found that “electric vehicles will barely help cut CO2 emissions in Germany over the coming years”. It suggests that, in Germany, “the CO2 emissions of battery-electric vehicles are, in the best case, slightly higher than those of a diesel engine”.
 
wobs said:
Have you done any peer-reviewed studies into this subject?
Do you have qualifications comparable to this?:
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???
Calm your jets, it's a discussion forum not a knowledge board for postgrad students ;)
 
bernardgreen said:
quite form https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-how-electric-vehicles-help-to-tackle-climate-change
Different studies find different results
A recent working paper from a group of German researchers at the thinktank Institute for Economic Research (ifo) found that “electric vehicles will barely help cut CO2 emissions in Germany over the coming years”. It suggests that, in Germany, “the CO2 emissions of battery-electric vehicles are, in the best case, slightly higher than those of a diesel engine”.
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Germany has a higher % of coal in their energy mix, owing to them shutting many of their nuclear plants. We have almost zero coal in our mix now.
 
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