Oi, you, get back to work!

[Ivor Windybottom]

Or maybe even made better money and profits because of the better workforce

The smart companies have usually paid mediocre wages but provided happy perks, e.g. gym memberships, table football machines, beanbag chairs, whatever. Happiness can often be bought for less by providing stuff instead of money. Pay rises make people happy for a month, after that they just feel entitled to get that amount for ever and have no gratitude. I very much doubt that you'd get 20% more work done by paying 20% more.

Pay normally only goes up if people leave to work elsewhere, or if they can't recruit good enough newbies, i.e. supply and demand. It happened where I worked once, big competitor moved into town, people started having mysterious one-off days off then quitting two weeks later, shortly after that a big pay rise all round.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Yeah we don't want a well paid workforce, or keeping up with inflation do we.

Sack everybody that wants work to pay better than benefits !

Every one of them is absolutely free to get a better job elsewhere.

But they don't, because they're already massively overpaid and underskilled and they know it.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Every one of them is absolutely free to get a better job elsewhere.

But they don't, because they're already massively overpaid and underskilled and they know it.

I'm guessing you are aware of,

The starting and average wage of a postie.

The terms and working conditions of most parcel delivery companies, especially those that insist the employers are self employed or freelance?

I guess not, but you stick to the right wing stuff.

I intensely dislike this race to the bottom, much prefer to see any person in employment able to earn enough not to get top ups from the tax we pay, whilst the companies that make it are effectively subsidised.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

The smart companies have usually paid mediocre wages but provided happy perks, e.g. gym memberships, table football machines, beanbag chairs, whatever. Happiness can often be bought for less by providing stuff instead of money. Pay rises make people happy for a month, after that they just feel entitled to get that amount for ever and have no gratitude. I very much doubt that you'd get 20% more work done by paying 20% more.

Pay normally only goes up if people leave to work elsewhere, or if they can't recruit good enough newbies, i.e. supply and demand. It happened where I worked once, big competitor moved into town, people started having mysterious one-off days off then quitting two weeks later, shortly after that a big pay rise all round.

Whilst business will pay as little as they can get away with people will wander very easily.

You need to look at some of the more progressive companies and their attitudes to staff and retainment. Employing newbies is very often dearer than looking after the existing skilled workforce.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Every one of them is absolutely free to get a better job elsewhere.

But they don't, because they're already massively overpaid and underskilled and they know it.

Pure rubbish.
There seems to be a lot of it around, today especially.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I'd like it if the sun was always shining and everyone was happy. But back in the real world, RM is a private company and has competitors. This isn't right wing, just accepting of reality rather than some utopian nonsense.

If you think RM's competitors are mistreating their staff to get an edge then that should be addressed by improving working conditions for everyone, by law. Write to your MP, vote labour, whatever.

It's not fair on RM to demand gold-plated pay and conditions for their staff while they try to compete against leaner, more efficient other companies. The outcome will be that RM will either cease to exist or will substantially shrink with lots of redundancies. This will all now happen this year, due to the appalling stress and cost that has been caused to all of RM's customers as a result of the strikes, right through the busiest christmas period. It hasn't happened yet, but it will - just look on any seller's forum, e.g. Amazon, Ebay, Etsy, whatever. People are just not using them any more, or at least where possible.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I'd like it if the sun was always shining and everyone was happy. But back in the real world, RM is a private company and has competitors. This isn't right wing, just accepting of reality rather than some utopian nonsense.

If you think RM's competitors are mistreating their staff to get an edge then that should be addressed by improving working conditions for everyone, by law. Write to your MP, vote labour, whatever.

It's not fair on RM to demand gold-plated pay and conditions for their staff while they try to compete against leaner, more efficient other companies. The outcome will be that RM will either cease to exist or will substantially shrink with lots of redundancies. This will all now happen this year, due to the appalling stress and cost that has been caused to all of RM's customers as a result of the strikes, right through the busiest christmas period. It hasn't happened yet, but it will - just look on any seller's forum, e.g. Amazon, Ebay, Etsy, whatever. People are just not using them any more, or at least where possible.

Yes, race to the bottom endorsed by windybottom. A definite right wing belief.

Not for me thanks. A working wage should be enough to live on without tax credits, forcing companies to lower their terms to match competitors is not the way to go.

 

[transam]

So do quite a few of the older ones...

That particular skill isn't restricted to any age group

Well we don’t take on older (?)! apprentices

All of em have been in there teens or certainly below 20

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

OK, this is interesting. I'm keen to understand how socialism works. So RM gives everyone a 20% pay rise. They're all happy, hugs all round.

Obviously they'll need to raise prices too. Do you think this will have a positive or negative effect on RM's customers, and do you think this will make them more likely to give their business to RM or one of its (many) competitors?

If their customers go elsewhere then do you think this has a positive or negative effect on RM's finances?

What does a company do if its turnover reduces? Increase or decrease the number of staff?

Sorry if all this is a little too real for you, go back to spouting how lovely things "should" be if you like, but RM actually exists in the real world and needs to make a profit to survive.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Who said anything about socialism ?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

A working wage should be enough to live on without tax credits, forcing companies to lower their terms to match competitors is not the way to go.

Agreed. It has always been highly questionable to use mechanisms such as tax credits to top up the wages of people on low wages to the level at which they can afford to live, simply because employers won't pay a living wage. This is something the political right seems to have major problems understanding

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

If the likes of Evri and Yodel have any sense, they won't even interview any applicant with Royal Mail on their CV.

It's not the posties generally, just the militant ones..

 

[Deleted member 18243]

Over - 50s could be exempt from income tax in a bid to tempt them back to work.

Over-50s could be EXEMPT from income tax if they return to work

The ideas are being floated as part of a major overhaul of the system, amid concerns that millions of people have simply opted out of the labour market since Covid.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Well we don’t take on older (?)! apprentices

All of em have been in there teens or certainly below 20

At 19 this lad I mentioned was quite a bit older than the normal run of the mill apprentice, but he'd had one "apprenticeship" go wrong and his mum was keen to support him financially whilst he qualified ( she runs the ckeaning firm we used). So he was an exception.

I have been asked by other people about "mature apprenticeships", including one guy this week who is an assistant shop manager at a smaller supermarket near our job, but I can see a lot of difficulties in taking on someone at say 30 yo with a wife and a kid. Most businesses couldn't afford to pay them a decent living wage whilst also paying for their college fees, and with them being no more productive than the average labourer - possibly much less for a couple of years

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Over - 50s could be exempt from income tax in a bid to tempt them back to work.

Over-50s could be EXEMPT from income tax if they return to work

The ideas are being floated as part of a major overhaul of the system, amid concerns that millions of people have simply opted out of the labour market since Covid.

www.dailymail.co.uk

That's just flying a kite, Andy.