Part P Electrical Installation Certification
- Thread starter RickH
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Yes, I read that, but it seemed to be a reference to the fact that, since it was 'permitted development', the work did not Require Planning Permission. However, it would surely have required Building Regs approval, which is obviously a totally different matter, and ought to have encompassed the whole project, including the electrics.EFLimpudence said:
Having said that, perhaps the OP didn't apply for Building Regs approval for the project (which he should have done), either!!
Kind Regards, John
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I had to do some electrical work in Wales and needed the completion certificate from the LABC, the work was originally being done by a builder who ran off.
The problem was getting the LABC inspector to accept my son's or my signature on the electrical installation certificate.
To begin with he wanted it to be inspected by an electrician he selected and I would need to pay for, which was an expanse I did not want. My son was doing the talking, and he said if the electrician they select does not pass the work, what happens then? He said for their electricians opinion to be taken over the opinion of himself or me, he would clearly need to be higher qualified than ourselves or he as the LABC inspector would clearly have to go by the person most highly qualified, so his inspector would need to have a better degree to myself.
Other wise it seemed a pointless exercise to be tested but some one with less qualifications than our selves. And in the end he backed down and agreed I could inspect and test my own work. So once complete I did the inspection and testing and submitted the EIC to the LABC and a completion certificate duly arrived in the post.
The LABC inspector had said he did not have the skill to test himself, and so his normally method was to get an EICR done by the electrician of his selection, who was told to test as a new installation, the electrician can't make out a EIC only the person in charge of the work can do that, but the two forms are nearly the same, so it was good enough for the LABC inspector.
So the BS 7671 allows for the details to be found by measuring or inquiry, so for example the ELI could be given to the electrician by the DNO before the power is actually connected, the EIC forms are a free down load from IET web site, and you already have all the readings, also the forms do allow three signatures, so if you fill in the three signature form, you sign for design and installation and your electrician can sign for inspection and testing, or you could sign since you know all the readings anyway.
But this should have been agreed on before it started, unless emergency work.
The problem was getting the LABC inspector to accept my son's or my signature on the electrical installation certificate.
To begin with he wanted it to be inspected by an electrician he selected and I would need to pay for, which was an expanse I did not want. My son was doing the talking, and he said if the electrician they select does not pass the work, what happens then? He said for their electricians opinion to be taken over the opinion of himself or me, he would clearly need to be higher qualified than ourselves or he as the LABC inspector would clearly have to go by the person most highly qualified, so his inspector would need to have a better degree to myself.
Other wise it seemed a pointless exercise to be tested but some one with less qualifications than our selves. And in the end he backed down and agreed I could inspect and test my own work. So once complete I did the inspection and testing and submitted the EIC to the LABC and a completion certificate duly arrived in the post.
The LABC inspector had said he did not have the skill to test himself, and so his normally method was to get an EICR done by the electrician of his selection, who was told to test as a new installation, the electrician can't make out a EIC only the person in charge of the work can do that, but the two forms are nearly the same, so it was good enough for the LABC inspector.
So the BS 7671 allows for the details to be found by measuring or inquiry, so for example the ELI could be given to the electrician by the DNO before the power is actually connected, the EIC forms are a free down load from IET web site, and you already have all the readings, also the forms do allow three signatures, so if you fill in the three signature form, you sign for design and installation and your electrician can sign for inspection and testing, or you could sign since you know all the readings anyway.
But this should have been agreed on before it started, unless emergency work.
I did apply for Building Regs
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This is the issue the LABC will not accept the EIC forms. (condition report)
They have the view that the Installation electrician MUST be the one who completed the Certification, they will not accept the certification by an electrician of work completed by others.
My Electrician explained to them if the original guy is dead .... then another must be acceptable, the LABC said no, in that case you have to get them to carry out certification (£322)
He asked what qualifications does the inspection guy have that he does not - LABC said that is irrelevant, as far as they are concerned the original installer & designer has to carry out inspection and certification or you have to use their approval scheme - and they admit they put it out to 3rd party electrician to do this.
Write to building control asking under what rules and what reasons they have decided that your electrician is unable to provide the required paperwork..then complain. You will not be upsetting them its your right to complain then ask what the appeals process is...which normally has the desired effect...managing an appeal is a time consuming and costly exercise...just saying no is not. Quite often we have had a well in this case that will be fine but next time...
But that is all their electrician will (be able to) do.
But that is all their electrician can now do.
Who do they mean by "them"?
There you go.
Having said that, I thought you said you did the installation.
I did .... it was a suggestion by my Electrician to get them to accept him inspecting & verifying, as he has had to do in the past when original electrician passed away.
Seems nuts that he can go anywhere and inspect & certify an existing installation (by others) for Lanadlaord safety certificate.
However, he can't do this on this very small new install.
But he is "certifying" different things than what the BC want.
I agree the BC might seem to be, and might actually be, being bloody minded but obviously they trust their electrician and, dare I say, might not trust you as you have not followed the correct procedure.
Have you answered why the electrics were not include in the Building Regulations application?
As I said, that's what I assumed - did your Building Regs application not include the electrics (I thought it was impossible to avoid that)?
Kind Regards, John
I just dug out the application pack ... there is no electrical work detailed, their approval just states their inspection as needed, and any specific inspection for heating appliances or electrical will require certification, or the Council can go this for a fee.
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That is correct, if you have done the work you sign for the work, and if you have designed it, then you sign for design, and if your electrician has tested it then he signs for inspection and testing.
Again correct, however the cost does not seem to line up, it was £100 plus vat for first £2000 worth of work in Wales, in Wales third party signing for work is not permitted, this is only allowed in England.
That is true, the LABC have the option of selecting who does the testing and inspecting, however clearly if the person they select says it is not compliant and your electrician says it is, it would be normal to take the option of the highest qualified of the two, so in real terms their inspector either needs to be in house, or better qualified to yours.
No that is incorrect, the forms allow for multi-signatures
However if you submit an incorrect form, then I can well see why the LABC inspector would say this guy does not know what he is doing, I am not accepting any forms signed by this guy, moving finger writes etc. So now a bit late.
Paying the fee is now the only option, as there is no installation certificate.
That's probably true. Mind you, since all that can reasonably be done now (by anyone) is an EICR, and given that the LABC have already admitted that they would contract it out, it doesn't seem all that reasonable that they would not accept an EICR done by someone else.
Kind Regards, John
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