Part P for England and Wales - what about DIY in Scotland ?

[The_Scotty]

If any electrical work has been done and if our (or the customers) application for completion does not include a certificate from the electrician LABC will not grant the relevant Completion certificate

I don't know any law or regulation to back this up. I can only go on what Building Control and the local Council request of us

 

[Softus]

Not all councils stick to what they're legally entitled to request (or demand). It sounds as though you don't know what your rights and duties are.

 

[The_Scotty]

Tell you what.

We have a pending application for completion for an extension from two years ago that Building Control haven't granted. Completion hasn't yet been granted because we didn't obtain a certificate for the electrical work thus haven't submitted it.

You can call them and tell them its ok to grant the Completion Certificate without it. How does that sound

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If any electrical work has been done and if our (or the customers) application for completion does not include a certificate from the electrician LABC will not grant the relevant Completion certificate

I don't know any law or regulation to back this up. I can only go on what Building Control and the local Council request of us

I'm a bit confused. I've only just noticed your location - are you really talking about what happens in Scotland?

As for the above (in E&W) if notifiable work was done, but not by a person able to self-certify, then the council would have known about that in advance (or an offence was committed), and would have agreed in advance how they were going to handle it. Many do say that if the work is done by a qualified but unregistered electrician they will accept his EIC as proof of compliance with Part P, but they can't insist on working that way.

 

[The_Scotty]

Apologies, just noticed what my location says. I am in Scotland and that is where all my work is done.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Apologies, just noticed what my location says. I am in Scotland and that is where all my work is done.

OK - if you read the reply I'm just editing out, ignore it. I don't know how the law works up there, but I imagine it must follow some basic principle like:

1) Were you legally obliged at the time you did the work to have it done by a registered or qualified electrician?

2) If yes, and you didn't, why do you think the council should ignore that and issue a completion certificate?

3) If no, and you didn't, why is it not a simple matter of saying to the council "there was no requirement for me to have the work done by any particular class of person, or to obtain an Electrical Installation Certificate, so on what legal basis are you refusing to issue a Completion Certificate?"?

 

[Softus]

You can call them and tell them its ok to grant the Completion Certificate without it.

I didn't say that it's ok, or that it's not ok.

How does that sound

It sounds as though you haven't taken the trouble to find out exactly what you're rights and duties are.

That isn't my fault, so don't shoot the messenger.

 

[The_Scotty]

See my previous post. I am in Scotland. We aint got no Part P up here

By me using that term 'We' I am referring to myself as the main contractor.

At the time of this particular extension the completion 'pack' contained a section for electrical installations/alterations requiring a signature to ensure that all electrical work was sound. It didn't have to come from the electrician as such but it did require someone to be responsible for the work. This particular extension seemed to cross the timescale of not requiring to requiring an Electrical Certificate. Now whenever our electrician has finished his required works he provides us with a certificate and we have had no problems obtaining Completion Certificates from LABC since.

The extension job remains 'uncomplete' because (by unfortunate coincidence) the Electrician used at the time was not our normal one and initially did not know anything about issuing certificates and has since become untraceable. No one else is willing to sign off someone elses work and issue the certificate (and quite rightly so).

 

[ban-all-sheds]

By me using that term 'We' I am referring to myself as the main contractor.

If you were the main contractor then without any doubt whatsoever you had a duty to ensure that you were at all times fully conversant with the laws which applied to your business.

This particular extension seemed to cross the timescale of not requiring to requiring an Electrical Certificate.

"Seemed to"? Either it did or it didn't, and as main contractor you should have known which it was.

The extension job remains 'uncomplete' because (by unfortunate coincidence) the Electrician used at the time was not our normal one and initially did not know anything about issuing certificates and has since become untraceable.

As main contractor you should have known that a certificate was required (if it was), and if it was you should not have allowed the electrician to fail to issue one.

No one else is willing to sign off someone elses work and issue the certificate (and quite rightly so).

Indeed not.

But it seems that you are in this situation because of your own incompetence. Has your client paid you? What's he going to do about the lack of a completion certificate?

 

[The_Scotty]

Why do you presume its a he?

Thanks for the Business lecture. My client has paid what she owed for the work we have done up to the point we are at. There is still money outstanding which is due when Completion is granted (I would never expect any client to have paid the full balance before the job is 'officially' finished)

A lesson has been learned and like I say all work done since then we have received certification for and have had no issues with. Prior to this problem, also like I said earlier, there was never a requirement for a certificate.

But yet some on here are claiming that there is no legislation to allow the Council to enforce this measure.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

There is still money outstanding which is due when Completion is granted

And if you can't arrange completion?

Prior to this problem, also like I said earlier, there was never a requirement for a certificate.

Things change. Your professional duty is to keep abreast of changes.

But yet some on here are claiming that there is no legislation to allow the Council to enforce this measure.

If at the time of the work a certificate was required then of course there is legislation which allows the council to enforce that.

Who here has claimed that if a certificate was legally required that there is no legally enforceable requirement to provide one?

 

[roberta1000]

This is as I understand it and it seems to work for me but I'm happy to be corrected (more than happy actually since this is my living...). All work in Fife except for some subcontracting in Perth/Grampian.

Unless a building warrant is needed there's no requirement to provide anything to anybody (this doesn't mean you can cheerfully ignore BS ).

You don't have to issue a certificate and there is no basis in law or in the regs to require one. If you are allowed to issue a certificate (I'm NICEIC for instance) then building control MUST accept it as part of completion. If you don't issue a certificate then it is down to building control what they do to issue completion. My experience to date is that they ask questions but don't inspect. I have only ever been asked if I am a competent person. Since I don't have to and I'm not sure what long-term implications there are if I do I've never issued a certificate.

 

[The_Scotty]

Hi Robert.

For your last paragraph are you talking about work that is or isn't covered under a job that required a building warrant.

 

[The_Scotty]

No offence Ban-All-Sheds but none of it is any of your business.

 

[kwikfix328]

This is as I understand it and it seems to work for me but I'm happy to be corrected (more than happy actually since this is my living...). All work in Fife except for some subcontracting in Perth/Grampian.

.

Hello Robert,

as you have popped you head above the parapet wall so to speak would you mind if i ask a few questions ?

Where abouts in Fife are you , (I'm living near to St Andrews ).

Are you a qualified and practising Electrician.

Roughly how much would you charge to do the work i require doing which is replace a C U for a new modern one and install a new shed circuit ( I've already bought a brand new MEM 2000 2 way garage CU for this) .
Just a close ball park figure will do, PM in confidence if you wish.

Thanks for all of the replies so far regarding my Original Post.
as I see it i have 3 options open to me and all 3 will be done to BS7671 standard:

i) Employ a firm of Electricians to do all of the work for me.

ii) Do all of the work myself and ensure it is to BS7671 standard by reading the books and using my own experience as an Aircraft Electrician, then getting a local Electrician in to test & inspect all of my work.

iii) Do all of the work myself and also buy some BS7671 standard test gear so that i can test the installation myself, using publicatons such as OSG and Chris Kitcher's Practical Guide to Inspection, Testing and cert of Electical Installations to guide me, plus advice from you online guys.

Option (i) would probably be the quickest, but cost the most money.

I might start on the Shed install soon but won't be doing much now until Scot Pwr install my service head isolator switch in mid March and certainly won't be doing any live work until then.