Personally competent?

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The very first thing is to discuss with the local building control people and explain how you have the necessary experience and knowledge to be able to design, install and test safe electrical systems. They may then accept your signature on the inspection certificate.

I agree, the OP hinted he hadn't.(regarding testing)

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Apart from the financial aspects of getting the appropriate equipment, it is not difficult to become competent to test your own installation work to confirm that it's OK.

General I&T competence needed to certify other people's work, carry out PIRs and fault finding etc is indeed a very different kettle of fish, but he doesn't need that level of competence.

I have a 17th Edition C&G Certificate (Installation, not Testing)

Which one, exactly?

Basically if you want to stay within the law then you need to find out what your council will accept. It may be that your qualification will be enough, but you still have to notify in advance - the best you can hope for is that they will charge you a lower fee.

It may be that they don't care, and will charge you the full whack, and will come along and do their checks and issue the completion certificate.

It may be that they don't care, and will charge you the full whack, and then insist that you arrange and pay for an electrician to inspect and test. They aren't allowed to do that, of course, or to make you pay extra for them to sub it out, but many councils try. If all you are doing, Building Control-wise, is a rewire, and you don't have other reasons for wanting to not upset them, then you need to decide how far you are prepared to push back against their behaviour.

As far as EICs go, there are no formal restrictions on who can issue those, and as an engineer you can (presumably) be trusted to know whether you would be justified in signing the declaration on one.

 

[Paul_C]

That doesn't make it right.

In what way does it make it wrong?

It's wrong because the building regulations have now gone completely over the top in both the things the LABC says are required and in the extortionate charges (fees, taxes, or whatever you want to call them).

You are putting great store in another thread on what is "reasonable," so I ask you this: What is reasonable about a local council charging £100, £200, or more for a person to do a job which costs him £20 in materials on his own home?

By far the majority of people I speak to consider it totally unreasonable and nothing but an excuse to extract yet more money from residents who have already seen council tax bills double in the last decade.

Do you think that we would be better off if there were no controls on what/how/where people could build?

They should be minimal, not the way they are today where the government is trying to control every last little thing.

It was a supposedly Conservative Prime Minister who signed Britain into the then-EEC, knowing full well the eventual aim of creating a federal superstate which is a socialist dictatorship.

Ah - now I see where you are coming from.

You are utterly beyond reason, and rapidly approaching deranged.

I suggest you just take your inane rantings off to some other forums where like-minded fringe loonies congregate, and you can all rant (and whisper about conspiracies) to each other.

I suggest you actually wake up to what the EU is doing, aided by the traitors in British government. Not CP by any chance, are you?

What are the fees if they aren't a tax then?

They are fees - something which is obvious to anyone who is not beyond reason.

Call them whatever you will, the building control fees/taxes/amounts are simply extortionate.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I suggest you actually wake up to what the EU is doing, aided by the traitors in British government. Not CP by any chance, are you?

I was wrong in what I said earlier - you are not approaching deranged, you are already well past that point too.

 

[mfarrow]

2) Electricians get a real trade.

point #2, please elaborate? Or do you just feel as if you have a higher class or social status that an electrician? If so, why do you decide to get your precious hands dirty doing our pityful work?

I think he meant that the trade does not suffer owing to people carrying out their own electrical work, rather than a dig at the profession.

My own opinion of Part P is that in 90% of cases it does actually prevent somebody doing something stupid, but to the 10% who know what they're doing or have enough knowledge to get by then the particularly steep price of checking the smallest of jobs will aggrevate them somewhat.

It certainly would have helped prevent my girlfriends uncle installing a new consumer unit in their brick-built summer house with no earth (he snipped the SWA cpc from the existing board); a non-earth buried SWA cable from that to the shed; no discrimination to speak of; the wrong size and type of protective device on virtually every final circuit (40A ring anyone?); and to top it all off a line to earth fault on this unearthed installation (that was a surprise I can tell you!). Do you think I told the LABC what I was doing? No chance - it was hard enough trying to explain to her parents why I was 'fixing' a 'perfectly working' installation without trying to convince them to call in an electrician.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

People, who sound perfectly competent to do simple work in their own homes, are routinely insulted, belittled, patronised and part-peed-to-death for wishing to do said work without handing over hundreds of pounds to their LA, mainly by you.

Please find some examples.

All quiet on the northern front...

You'll be waiting a long time for any meaningful examples.

All mouth and no trousers.

People may not be able to work on their own homes without following the building regulations, but it should be remembered that (especially with electrics) dangerous work may not be apparent to future purchasers of their property. That is why certain work is a controlled. Councils claim they make no profit from the BCO process, but that is probably more a reflection of their efficiency.

On the other hand; it is more questionable behavior to attempt to train someone by forum questions and answers to work on their own electrics. When they do not clearly have the pre-requisite knowledge to do the work.


Martin

 

[Paul_C]

I was wrong in what I said earlier - you are not approaching deranged, you are already well past that point too.

Either you see it or you don't. Or you see it but you support it so you try to suggest than anyone who sees it but does not support it is somehow crazy. But that aside.....

I notice you didn't answer the earlier question about how much more expensive or restrictive the situation would have to become before you would consider it unacceptable. Clearly you see nothing wrong with the present situation, and you've stated you don't agree with the total ban on DIY electrical work in Australia.

So at which point between these two levels of regulation would you locate the boundary of what you consider to be acceptable government interference?

If Part P exemptions were changed to allow replacement of switches and sockets, but not the running of new spurs, lighting extensions, and so on? If they were to restrict even the replacement of a light fitting? If the current fees were to double? Triple? Quadruple?

Where would you draw the line?

 

[Hibbo]

People, who sound perfectly competent to do simple work in their own homes, are routinely insulted, belittled, patronised and part-peed-to-death for wishing to do said work without handing over hundreds of pounds to their LA, mainly by you.

Please find some examples.

All quiet on the northern front...

You'll be waiting a long time for any meaningful examples.

All mouth and no trousers.

People may not be able to work on their own homes without following the building regulations, but it should be remembered that (especially with electrics) dangerous work may not be apparent to future purchasers of their property. That is why certain work is a controlled. Councils claim they make no profit from the BCO process, but that is probably more a reflection of their efficiency.

On the other hand; it is more questionable behavior to attempt to train someone by forum questions and answers to work on their own electrics. When they do not clearly have the pre-requisite knowledge to do the work.


Martin

Give it a rest, Martin.

I've not copied and pasted yet because I have better things to do then spend hours on end fighting poxy little wars on internet forums.

I came to this forum to gain knowledge and advice before embarking on a major renovation project, but although there are some good, helpful people here, the dominant posters seem to be schadenfreude addicts and caricatures of Harry Enfield's 'you don't want to do it like that' bloke.

I may post here again when I start work, but hopefully I can find an internet resource with the same level of expertise as here, but less of the pathetic cock-waving.

Ha det faen bra.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

I've not copied and pasted yet because I have better things to do then spend hours on end fighting poxy little wars on internet forums.
.

Or you can't back up what you say about people perhaps?

Bye then and take you foul mouth with you.

 

[mickeymouse]

point #2, please elaborate? Or do you just feel as if you have a higher class or social status that an electrician? If so, why do you decide to get your precious hands dirty doing our pityful work? Also breaking the law doesn't make you very respectable does it?

no, what I meant was, it gets a greater standing and that its probable the money goes up because it's official recognition that it's a skilled trade and you need to be properly qualified to do it. i look through the papers to see what trades earn and i've always been a bit confused why electricians don't seem to get the money i think they should.

but i'd had a couple of whiskeys and somehow thought my sentence conveyed all that. oops, "my bad" as the yankees say.

as for breaking the law, well, I believe qualified is being able to do it, not some council fella telling you that you are able to do it, I look up to people like Henry Ford. Nor do I ask for your respect, or claim to be respectable, but I do apologize that my meaning could be taken as it was, no offense intended.

and just to be clear there are jobs i would call an electrician for, i've also had advice from friends who are sparks on jobs i shouldn't be doing, just to check i understood everything. i only do those jobs i KNOW i can do, and test to have done correctly.

 

[imagineit]

It's all getting a bit convoluted and away from what I intended, so let me summarise:

1. I want to do the rewire myself, up to and including the Consumer Unit, because I wll then get it done the way I want it and I will know what the standard of the work is.

2. I know plenty of electricians who would be qualified to do the testing (which I'm not), and I will ask one of them to carry out the tests and I'll pay him for doing so.

3. My main objection is to having to pay the LABC for premission to do what I want. If I conform to the regs and the tests are ok I don't see why I should have to inform them.

4. Everything will be designed and calculated beforehand and there will be a full set of drawings (done using CAD) and specs which will probably far surpass anything you see in 'normal' practice.

 

[Paul_C]

1. I want to do the rewire myself, up to and including the Consumer Unit, because I wll then get it done the way I want it and I will know what the standard of the work is.

Definitely. An excellent reason for wanting to do it yourself.

2. I know plenty of electricians who would be qualified to do the testing (which I'm not), and I will ask one of them to carry out the tests and I'll pay him for doing so.

Why do you not consider yourself sufficiently qualified to carry out the testing? Given your background, I would say that you are amply qualified.

3. My main objection is to having to pay the LABC for premission to do what I want. If I conform to the regs and the tests are ok I don't see why I should have to inform them.

I agree entirely, and in your position I'd just get the job done and not get the bureaucrats involved. Obviously there are others here who disagree.

4. Everything will be designed and calculated beforehand and there will be a full set of drawings (done using CAD) and specs which will probably far surpass anything you see in 'normal' practice.

And that demonstrates how ridiculous it is, that any "inspection" carried out by the LABC is going to be by somebody who doesn't have a fraction of your knowledge or experience and probably wouldn't be able to understand your plans and calculations fully anyway.

 

[imagineit]

Paul_C

Thanks for your comments, you may have missed the earlier one where I said I wanted the meter moved once I've got everything ready. This means that the LABC will almost certainly get to hear about the work. As to doing the testing, I accept that this ought to be done by somebody with the 'next stage' C&G from mine, ie the Testing and Inspection Cert.

The idea of restricting electrical work to those who show they are competent to do it safely I consider a good idea, it's just the stupidity of saying that even if you demonstrate competence, eg get your C&G, you are still not trusted to do the work without somebody else checking it, unless you pay lots of money to a government appointed commercial company. That sort of thing leads to suspicions of corruption.

It really means that the C&G Certificates are worthless unless you also register under Part P.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Move of the meter has absolutely nothing to do with LABC and the DNOs have no interest in telling them.

As mentioned before the DNO may require confirmation of your competence before connecting up.
I suggest you engage an electrician who is prepared to work the way that you want and have the meter moved at the same time as the new consumer unit goes in.

Your issue may be finding an electrician who is prepared to sign off your wiring. I will never do this. Mybe I am stupid but I have invested many hours of time getting my qualifications, and many hundreds of pounds in joining a "Part P scheme", having the required insurances, calibrated equipment etc etc.

I will always try to block folk who try and do it 'by the back door'.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I've not copied and pasted yet because I have better things to do then spend hours on end fighting poxy little wars on internet forums.

That's unacceptable.

You have accused me of doing something which I deny - you cannot do that and then say that you've got better things to do than prove the truth of your accusation.

I can understand that you don't want to have to spend hours looking for proof, because there isn't any, and your hours will therefore have been wasted, but you did make the accusation, therefore you must either prove it, or retract it.