The simplest form of economics - supply v's demand. That which is in the greatest demand but in the least supply carries the greatest value.
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I remember, a few years back, (I forget what they called it) it was proposed that poor people in a community, say those who could not afford an electrician, should issue an IOU to the electrician which could be bought back by doing some form of work, say gardening, for the electrician at a later date.
They could also trade in these IOUs to a third party whom the electrician owed and so on with other workers.
It was then realised that all they were doing was issuing their own money - but, of course, they also realised that some of the people would be untrustworthy and never pay back their debts.
They could also trade in these IOUs to a third party whom the electrician owed and so on with other workers.
It was then realised that all they were doing was issuing their own money - but, of course, they also realised that some of the people would be untrustworthy and never pay back their debts.
D
Doggit
Not so I'm afraid Noesall; the caveat is that only certain things have an intrinsic value. This was shown in Germany after the war, where the the currency was devalued so much, that people had to take a wheelbarrow full of money just to buy a loaf of bread. Every time the banking system fails, you then get rampant inflation, then you get worthless money and chaos. Something is only worth what others will pay for it, so the man who breeds rabbits, is rich when food is in short supply, whereby the painter starves. Antibiotics would be worth more than gold, and horses only if you need things transported.
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Referring to the Weimar Republic or post WW2?
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It's late so can't be arsed to search tonight but u don't think it was a "poor" community. IIRC it was a Dutch thing? (will check in the be morning)
Basically it was a village being found built that was self sustained in the final result but those that built it all had certain trades and skills so that over time what jon they plumber did at 10 houses, dave the sparks did 10 houses, mick the brick did 10 houses etc etc. It was a self financed project. All food was grown on site and it wasn't even a barter system. Sounds bad but a bit like a commune but for people that had real jobs but built and bought a sustainable house and life for pretty much nothing.
But who creates that supply and demand? You fail to see that your "value" is easily manipulated from outside sources as and when required. You have no control over what you owns value or the value of that fiver in your pocket. You are TOLD what it's worth is.
No, not that. I remember that one as well.
WTF?
Your post is just echoing exactly what I have just said. You trade one thing that you don't need for something that you do need. The item of the greatest value is the one that everyone needs and is in the shortest supply.
Who mentioned money? Baffled?
Again, you mention money, not me.
Goods can be bartered for other goods. It is the vendor who dictates what the worth of their goods are based upon the need from them that want it. The greater number of those needing your goods, the better their value in terms of what you agree to trade it for.
THERE IS NO NEED FOR MONEY IN MY SCENARIO.
er....people that need medicine, animal hide, shelter, water, food, transport.
I haven't failed to see anything and that scenario can work the other way too as long as there is another trader with the same goods and a better deal.
I think I have summed it up here perfectly ta.....
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That kind of system works small scale, where slackers can't hide, but in a country of 70m there will always be those who don't get the idea of working to pay their way. Then there is crime etc.
If the BoE collapses don't expect your house to be worth much.
If the BoE collapses don't expect your house to be worth much.
It matters not if you own it. And it is worth a heck of a lot when it is snowing outside. Keeps you alive.
Money comes along because people that bartered realise that while a camel or horse has a certain value as both an animal and meat, if you want to trade for something that is not worth a whole camel, you can only give an integer number of camels or horses. If you start to subdivide your camel, it's not longer a camel with all the uses of a camel, it's just meat - while still having value, if you had twice as much camel meat, it's not the same as a whole camel. Cash represents value, and can be easily subdivided. Initially gold, with an actual matching value, later coins that are not gold but represent the same value to those that use them, even later notes, which are much more convenient but have even less real value to the point we are now - electronic money. Only WORTH something becuase we know they can be traded with other people who regard it to be the same value that we ourselves do. Take GBP to Australia and it's worthless as the Ozzies don't trade with the same units.
Now lets talk about inflation... and how giving people "free" money will drive it up rapidly (in the same way Quantitive Easing has done)
Nozzle
Barter has been discussed in detail on another forum I use and when I posted on here more frequently I did ask if people did or were prepared to barter their services for goods . I've done jobs in exchange for something else other than money but the general consensus seems to be to shy away from barter.
Only a short thread,
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/cashless-society.360195/
Only a short thread,
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/cashless-society.360195/
D
Doggit
So who mentioned money, well Aquaheat did, and you disputed Aquaheats comments, so there was an implied assumption that we were still working on the monetary aspect, and I pointed out that infalstion reduces the value of the money. And yes, whilst I sort of disagreed with you, I was also agreeing with you on the goods aspect of your argument, just modifying the perspective of your comments. So I'll appologise for agreeing with you, whilst appearing to disagree at the same time.
You're right. WTF sums it all up.
Not quite Nozzle. Gold and jewels were much more portable than camels etc, but there was no universal standard as to what anything was worth, so coins came into being in about 700BC, The Chinese were the first to issue paper money on a private basis, as it was lighter than gold and silver, and the British then issued money that promised to pay the bearer the original value of gold. We've now got to the point where notes are considered actual money, and now it's bearer bonds that are taking over for higher values. In the middle ages, it was common for people to find intermediaries that would promise to honour an debt in another country, so no money actually had to be physically moved.
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