http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...t-in-fight-against-energy-crisis-8217382.html
Great stuff, but what are we going to breathe?
Great stuff, but what are we going to breathe?
Petrol from fresh air
- Thread starter sooey
- Start date
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J
joinerjohn
Seems an extremely expensive way of making petrol though. They might wait until it reaches £20 a gallon (next year then) until it becomes a viable product. 
C
calorific
I'm on fleabay now buying a load of jerry cans in readinessSeems an extremely expensive way of making petrol though. They might wait until it reaches £20 a gallon (next year then) until it becomes a viable product.
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The Independent said:
and also said:
(My bold text.)
It would appear that ignorance of elementary science has reached the national press.
As every schoolboy (and probably most girls too) used to be taught, the chemical reaction CO2 + 4H2 = CH4 +2H2O can be used to make methane which, if so desired, can then be polymerised into more complex hydrocarbons like petrol. The key ingredient is of course hydrogen and not water vapour as stated in the article. So where does this hydrogen come from? Answer: from water. And how do we get it out? By adding energy; at least as much energy as you can possibly get back from the petrol. And where does the energy come from?
Reading further down, we find that the electricity needed to produce this 'petrol from air' is to be derived from renewables. Now that might sound fair enough but, for as long as any power station anywhere on the grid is still burning fossil fuel, using a renewable power source to make a fossil fuel is pointless. By feeding the renewable source into the grid, you can save enough fossil fuel to make at least 2.5 times as much petrol.
Some time in the future when all of the fossil fuel has gone - or is considered politically unacceptable - our power stations will all be nuclear. (My apologies to those who advocate a solar future but I think it will be nuclear.) Only then will it make sense to use some of that electricity to make petrol.
Addendum:
There are perhaps some special cases. Maybe you're in a remote location with no easy access to petrol and no connection to the grid but you do have a wind turbine.
i think removing all the co2 will only apply to the 0.00001% of the atmosphere they manage to process
maltaron said:
You get the CO2 back when you burn the petrol.
The one key element in this or any energy crisis is always pretty much ignored and that is levels of consumption. To provide a "solution" involves at worst not raising consumption and better still reducing it, we have higher levels of energy production now than we did 30 or 60 years ago and we have a crisis looming now .
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I
ImayKnow
What you may not realise is that any alternative fuel to petrol or diesel will still attract the same level of taxation that applies to these fuels.
So the average man in the street will be no better off.
So the average man in the street will be no better off.
The one key element in this or any energy crisis is always pretty much ignored and that is levels of consumption. To provide a "solution" involves at worst not raising consumption and better still reducing it, we have higher levels of energy production now than we did 30 or 60 years ago and we have a crisis looming now
Reducing consumption means either turning things off or increasing efficiency. There was a massive hoo ha when std 100w bulbs were banned but that was needed to force the improvement of led both for quality and price. IE a market had to be made in order for the led manufacturers compete. This is what governments do best. Enforce change despite the fuss. They don't get it right very often but in a few years when everybody has gen 10+ lamps there will be no fond memories of filament bulbs
Where they are getting it wrong is 20 years ago there should enforced government assisted insulation upgrades to all homes below a certain energy rating to bring them within acceptable limits. No opt out allowed. All UK homes must comply irrespective of size or age.
Those who refuse will have their homes reassessed and their rates will go up accordingly (ie the cost of not complying)
Our home build quality is dreadful. I remember driving to work a way back and watching a drive through car wash and further on a block of flats being built.
The car wash had 100mm blue celotex in the walls and the flats cheap 50mm fibreglass...
bet this doesn't go into fruition.
bet the idea is suddenly found not to work,i:e has been bought up by the oil industry and then locked away.
like all the other so called ideas of this and that being an alternative fuel,suddenly disappears from view.
the Arab states set the price of crude along with the speculators ,but its the oil producing countrys that set the amount released.
apart from the oil fields that haven't been found yet,i wouldn't be surprised when in about a few hundred years when oil gets a little tight America will suddenly be awash with the stuff.
bet the idea is suddenly found not to work,i:e has been bought up by the oil industry and then locked away.
like all the other so called ideas of this and that being an alternative fuel,suddenly disappears from view.
the Arab states set the price of crude along with the speculators ,but its the oil producing countrys that set the amount released.
apart from the oil fields that haven't been found yet,i wouldn't be surprised when in about a few hundred years when oil gets a little tight America will suddenly be awash with the stuff.
J
joinerjohn
Just what would people who live in Grade 2 or even 1 listed buildings have done? Just pay out higher council tax? Higher rates?
You could never have a situation where people can't opt out of insulating their house... What about those who live in Victorian and Georgian terraced houses , with solid walls (no cavity for starters?) ?? Do you force them to reduce the size of their rooms by 200mm by adding insulation to their external walls?
If so, where does it end? Let the government ride roughshod over everyone? Let them direct every waking moment of our hours/days/lives??
It wont be in a couple of hundred years....this will come about in the next 40 years
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