please help me CORGI

[Softus]

 

[heatingman]

Mr Happy, I appreciate what your trying to achieve, getting your boiler installed and signed off, as cheap as possible. From the sounds of it you are hoping to get "mates rates", I suggest you ask around at work. You will not get an RGi to work at mates rates for an unknown customer, doing it himself. Even a "mates rates" RGi would insist on doing/overseeing all gas related work.

Mr AtoZ, you have not done anything illegal installing your own boiler, providing its been done competently/correctly. The only issue you may have is if/when you sell your house the purchaser may request a notification certificate. It could work out expensive.

 

[bengasman]

Yo guys, mr cheap either got the message or he is looking for a local cowboy.
Last sign of life from him was about 40 messages ago.

 

[happyskyper]

I was too busy phoning around!


Anyhow interesting arguments developed..

Also to whoever.. I havent done any gas work..for the Nth time...

AtoZ seems to be on my side.... so now you lot are ganging up on him.. it really is a shame that some people have resisted an opportunity for honest reflection. Like the guy who mentioned someone being prosecuted in Wales...He totally got the wrong point... the guy got prosecuted for pretending he had a CORGI card and was charging people to do their gas work.. different to DIY competent installation for yourself...

NOW.... even if I could achieve such a feat as AtoZ and do the whole installation myself I wouldnt like to do this.. I am a kinda door to door man so id prefer to leave the really important parts to the professionals or perhaps even competent individuals (if this fact can be ascertained).

I object to all this chat about business running etc etc.. your business is not a business run for profit but a business primarily run to employ you and if you are thinking otherwise you are mistaken.. unless of course you are aggressively expanding into new markets (AFRIKA SOUTH AMERICA CHINA INDIA) recruiting a workforce the size of a foodball stadium investing heavily into R and D and will soon be in a position to lead from the front in the fight to curb global warming and this financial crisis.. give me a break... your business is for the purpose of employing yourself so assuming your business is entitled to make profit is just rubbish... your business is entitled to make money so you can pay yourself and your 100 quid a week apprentice.. nothing else.... after all what happens to your company's profits.. you pay them to your shareholders??..
NOw how much you think you should pay yourself is up to you.. and whether I as a consumer/customer/client will meet your demands is up to me...

I was trying to establish a transparent means of assessing my position in respect of this and I thank you all for your contribution..

final point.. market forces are clearly not working well in this area.. it is a bit like the guys who put new service lines in the property.. you either pay what they quote or you dont get new service line in your house be it water/gas or electricity.. so the closer we get to a socialist society and sooner we do it the better. Now perhaps if I was a successful profiteering company owner I might have had a different opinion.. but like I said I am a door to door man me..

 

[roguetrader]

I object to all this chat about business running etc etc.. your business is not a business run for profit but a business primarily run to employ you and if you are thinking otherwise you are mistaken..

you have your head in the clouds, or up your arse. I bet your the type who won't do 30 seconds over your alotted hours and takes the national average days of sickness leave as a given. I certainly run my business to make a profit where possible, I suspect you would welcome communism and more than likely have a picture of stalin above your mantlepiece.

 

[bengasman]

final point.. market forces are clearly not working well in this area.. it is a bit like the guys who put new service lines in the property.. you either pay what they quote or you dont get new service line in your house be it water/gas or electricity.. so the closer we get to a socialist society and sooner we do it the better. Now perhaps if I was a successful profiteering company owner I might have had a different opinion.. but like I said I am a door to door man me..

You clearly need to wake up and smell the coffee. Market forces work excellently in your area.
The price for a proper boiler change is around 2 grand, and after countless phonecalls you have not found anyone who is willing to do it for pocket money.
That is called: freedom of supply and demand.

Wanna save money? Get your wife to buy the clothes in primark, don’t go to the pub, in fact stop drinking, smoking, sell your car and take the bus.
That will allow you to spend the required amount of money to enable the family to be warm AND safe.

Consider moving to Cuba, you seem to like communism.

 

[happyskyper]

Not communism.. try socialism...

Unless I am mistaken every election is won or lost on either side of political spectrum on socialist agenda.. education... NHS..public services.. crime suppression or control... care for needy and elderly (when was the last time that proposed tax cuts won votes??) Next election might be different who knows?

there is nothing wrong with saving money.. and you are still dancing around the issue..

its 2k only cos you say its 2k and there is not a thing anyone can do because you can say 2k cos your colleague will also say its 2k and if you wanna be warm you best pay 2k...who gets 2k? you or him doesnt matter cos it all evens out in the end. So I understand perfectly why you only might be interested in going to CUBA to have a cocktail or two at 50p a go and nothing else... On the other hand I do concern myself with the concept of fairness and integrity even when it doesnt suit me. CUBA doesnt interest me

I guess all this is human nature to a certain degree..

there are people who will always prefer stealing a pound to earning two...
similarly there are those who prefer earning two whilst at the same time stealing one..

 

[D_Hailsham]

Like the guy who mentioned someone being prosecuted in Wales...He totally got the wrong point... the guy got prosecuted for pretending he had a CORGI card and was charging people to do their gas work.. different to DIY competent installation for yourself

The person was not just prosecuted (by Trading Standards) for pretending to be Corgi registered, he was mainly prosecuted for carrying out gas work while unregistered.

David Mees, of Ael-y-Bryn, Llandinam, Powys, pleaded guilty to contravening Regulations 3(1), 3(3), 5(3), 27(1) of the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 relating to carrying out work on gas appliances at three addresses in Powys while not registered

In any case, I was not referring to DIY work but replying to those who suggested that someone with ACS qualification would be able to notify building control.

This case shows that, if the work is being done for money, the person must be CORGI registered. They can then notify Building Control, via the CORGI Competent Persons Scheme, and everything is OK.

But what about jobs where no money changes hands? There was another case - again in Wales - of a Landlord who did a DIY boiler installation in one of his properties. He was prosecuted and found guilty on two counts: Regulation 3(1) which says: No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so. and Regulation 36 (4) which states: Every landlord shall ensure that any work in relation to a relevant gas fitting or any check of a gas appliance or flue is carried out by or by an employee of a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive. It cost him over £10k. - a Corgi guy would have been cheaper!

As for someone with ACS only, they certainly cannot do work for payment - they would be breaking the law. But could they do it for free - their own installation for example - notify Building Control and get the necessary documentation? Possibly, they have their ACS so they may be able to prove competence.

The real problem lies with the person who has no ACS and no Corgi registration. The Regulations say, quite clearly: No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so. This does not mean just someone who does the work for payment, but Joe Public at large. So how do they prove their competence? (And here I must disagree with those who say that it is up to the prosecution to show that the person was incompetent.) The answer is that they cannot.

So what is Building Control to do when Joe DIY Public applies to them for the appropriate certificate? Supposing they just issue one, without carrying out any check, and six months later the house blows up due to a gas leak? The house owner, assuming he was not killed in the blast, could sue the Council for negligence on the basis that they issued a certificate saying the installation complied with the regulations and it obviously did not. No council would put themselves into such a position.

So, sensibly, they would insist on an inspection by a Corgi registered person. And here we go right back to the beginning .... would a Corgi registered person be willing to certify work which he had not carried out himself?

 

[happyskyper]

but for the 77th time... no gas work has taken place...

I have not delved into doing any gas pipe work..nor do I intend to.


as far a landlord thing is concerned.. understandably so.. imagine what precedent that would set if he was allowed to get away with it??.. ok we are in a capitalist society but despite that we can not allow people willy nilly to do what they like! how am I putting anyone in danger by connecting my ch and water pipes is beyond me??

Can you think of a potential lethal situation arising from this?

can I just mention again that no gas pipe work has been carried out and that boiler is new.

 

[D_Hailsham]

but for the 77th time... no gas work has taken place...

I have not delved into doing any gas pipe work..nor do I intend to.

can I just mention again that no gas pipe work has been carried out and that boiler is new.

You are presuming that it is only the gas side of the installation which comes under the Regulations; and this is where you are wrong.

The regulations define work as:
"work" in relation to a gas fitting includes any of the following activities carried out by any person, whether an employee or not, that is to say -
(a) installing or re-connecting the fitting;

It further defines a "gas fitting" as:
"gas fittings" means gas pipework, valves (other than emergency controls), regulators and meters, and fittings, apparatus and appliances designed for use by consumers of gas for heating, lighting, cooking or other purposes for which gas can be used

and, lastly, it defines "appliance" as:
"gas appliance" means an appliance designed for use by a consumer of gas for heating, lighting, cooking or other purposes for which gas can be used.

So a boiler is a "gas appliance", it is also a "gas fitting". Installation of the boiler is therefore "work". Any such work must be carried out by a "competent person", which the court cases cited have shown to be someone who is CORGI registered. Installation does not just mean connecting the gas pipe, it includes installing the flue, connecting the water pipes, testing and commissioning the boiler and issuing a certificate that the system complies with regulations. How can any one do that if they have not checked that all the pipes and tanks have been properly installed and not leaking, valves and pumps wired correctly etc etc?

 

[roguetrader]

comrade happyskyper, what is your interpretation of a fair price for the work involved?? I believe the only price is the one you set as being right, anything over that and the bloke should be sent to the goulag in siberia.
my advice to you would be to continue goose stepping your round in your hammer and sickle pants and bear skin hat. long live the motherland.

 

[mattylad]

Surely until the pipework is connected to the boiler its not part of it.

Surely an RGI is capable of testing the pipework before fitting it to the boiler? (just like when you do a replacement boiler job).

Do y'all think that a DIYr cannot correctly fit coper pipes to radiators?
Its not exactly rocket science, there is enough information on doing it available.

All this guy wants is the boiler fitting for a reasonable rate.
They have/do get fitted same day so a reasonable days rate is all he wants to pay, 2K is a tad excessive for that IMO.

 

[roguetrader]

with respect, the op was quibbling at £400 which in my mind is more than resonable.

 

[Statia]

with respect, the op was quibbling at £400 which in my mind is more than resonable.

With respect, is £400 reasonable because that is what you would charge someone? Is it reasonable because of the overheads and deeming part of that a reasonable wage for a qualified man? Or is it reasonable because "it's the going rate"?

Your attack on the original poster mocking his socialist leanings as a comminist doesn't do much for your credibility, in any argument.

 

[picbits]

£400 is 2-3 weeks of money for me at the moment (I work part time for myself) but its what I'd consider reasonable for a qualified person to spend maybe a day and a half with their equipment (not cheap) and their experience etc commisioning and testing a boiler they haven't supplied onto pipework they are unsure of.