Police Brutality

[Lincsbodger]

Remember, when you flippantly give away other people human rights and civil liberties, your giving your own away as well, and you might need them one day. Its taken a thousand years to get them in the first place.

This reminds me of this poem for some reason by Niemöller

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists
and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for me -
and by then there was no one left to speak out for me.

...what a diluting of a brilliant poem..
Maybe we should break this out when someone is not allowed to smoke in a taxi too..
"But its me human rights init!"
or being able inject heroin in a public place
"First they come for the druggies...then they came for the shoplifters...what a discrimination geezer!!"

Using this poem to sympathise with people deliberately disrupting and being hostile to a police peace keeping force is disgusting given it's origins...
...I thought better of you Dex.

No it isnt, its exactly correct. it was written describing the activities of a fascist police state, which is what we are close to the edge of. It was written for exactly the situation we find ourselves in, where the state is walking over the rights of its citizens, and using violence against them.

"deliberately disrupting and being hostile to a police peace keeping force" has to be one of the funniest things ive ever read. The TSG isnt there to keep the peace, they are they, and several officers have freely admitted this, to go and pick a fight with protesters, to intimidate, bully and opress anyone trying to exercise political protest and free speech.

If you disbelieve this, go and try and stand at the entrance to the Houses of Parliament with a placard saying 'OUT WITH BROWN'. I g'tee you wont last five minutes before your bundled away.

 

[dextrous]

dex in my soon to be 52 years I have had a few occasions where I've been stopped by Police. On one occasion I was prevented from walking along a public highway because Princess Anne was at the opening of a public building and they didn't want any riff raff present. Once the Police Officer told me why I couldn't pass and although I said I didn't think it right the road was closed I didn't get abusive or threatening, I took a different route.

If you want to square up to a Police Officer either on your own or when backed up by a mob perhaps you get what you ask for.

I accept all that you say with just one question of clarification of what is meant by "you get what you ask for".

The only problem I have is who judges 'what I ask for', and what happens when I get considerably more than 'what I asked for'?

 

[dextrous]

No it isnt, its exactly correct. it was written describing the activities of a fascist police state, which is what we are close to the edge of. It was written for exactly the situation we find ourselves in, where the state is walking over the rights of its citizens, and using violence against them.

I can't bring myself to go that far, Lincs.

 

[ajstoneservices]

I guess if I'm civil to them perhaps I'll be treated in a like manner.

 

[Lincsbodger]

dex in my soon to be 52 years I have had a few occasions where I've been stopped by Police. On one occasion I was prevented from walking along a public highway because Princess Anne was at the opening of a public building and they didn't want any riff raff present. Once the Police Officer told me why I couldn't pass and although I said I didn't think it right the road was closed I didn't get abusive or threatening, I took a different route.

If you want to square up to a Police Officer either on your own or when backed up by a mob perhaps you get what you ask for.

I accept all that you say with just one question of clarification of what is meant by "you get what you ask for".

The only problem I have is who judges 'what I ask for', and what happens when I get considerably more than 'what I asked for'?

Absolutely. the whole reason we have a judiciary that is separate from the police is because once the Police become Judge and Jury, then the impartiality and fairness of justice go out the window. And the Police are increasingly taking on the role of judge and jury, and its very very dangerous to all of us.

 

[Lincsbodger]

I guess if I'm civil to them perhaps I'll be treated in a like manner.

I wouldn't count on it.

Heres a story about police CS gassing an 80 year old man.........

 

[dextrous]

I guess if I'm civil to them perhaps I'll be treated in a like manner.

Therein lies the crunch and the whole issue.

 

[ajstoneservices]

The only problem I have is who judges 'what I ask for', and what happens when I get considerably more than 'what I asked for'?

I think that is decided by the Justice system the outcome is not always what some people want though is it.

 

[Lincsbodger]

The only problem I have is who judges 'what I ask for', and what happens when I get considerably more than 'what I asked for'?

I think that is decided by the Justice system the outcome is not always what some people want though is it.

When your being beaten up in the street by a police officer, the justice system doesnt enter into it, the police have already decided your guilty and decided you punishment, that the whole point!!! The police cannot be judge and jury, a point we keep making and you keep ignoring!!!

 

[Johnmelad502]

 

[dextrous]

The only problem I have is who judges 'what I ask for', and what happens when I get considerably more than 'what I asked for'?

I think that is decided by the Justice system the outcome is not always what some people want though is it.

Fair enough. It's the "on the spot" overreaction by certain elements of the police thatt's the problem.

 

[Lincsbodger]

More than 5000 complaints made about the TSG. Only 1.8% upheld, indicating theres a culture of protection and impunity within the police about the violence of the TSG.

Its a bit more than 'overreaction by certain elements', its systematic culture of institutional violence against the public!!!

 

[ajstoneservices]

The only problem I have is who judges 'what I ask for', and what happens when I get considerably more than 'what I asked for'?

I think that is decided by the Justice system the outcome is not always what some people want though is it.

When your being beaten up in the street by a police officer, the justice system doesnt enter into it, the police have already decided your guilty and decided you punishment, that the whole point!!! The police cannot be judge and jury, a point we keep making and you keep ignoring!!!

I am not saying the Police can do as they please it's clear, they cant and don't. dex's "checks and balances" are in place they just dont suit everyone.
Do the Police cover each others backs? would be difficult for them to work together if they didn't.

Are our Police more violent now? TSG in the 80s, the Policing of Miners strike, Wapping etc were quite different to the G20.

 

[ajstoneservices]

Fair enough. It's the "on the spot" overreaction by certain elements of the police thatt's the problem.

OK, lets agree that is the problem. But they're isolated cases violence is not endemic in the Police Force if it were, wouldnt we all be victims?.

 

[dextrous]

Fair enough. It's the "on the spot" overreaction by certain elements of the police thatt's the problem.

OK, lets agree that is the problem. But they're isolated cases violence is not endemic in the Police Force if it were, wouldnt we all be victims?.

And this is where I differ from Lincs, but also where I disagree with a whole load of posters on here. For them, there is no problem - any action taken by any copper is acceptable because the police are doing their job and protecting us. Moreover, we should be grateful when someone gets their comeuppance, regardless of the fact that it's not the PC's right to make this judgement call