Power cables in the wall?

[JohnW2]

I've been hearing this a lot lately, out and about. There seem to be professionals (both plumbers and electricians), spreading false stories about how a diyer is no longer allowed to touch the wiring.

... and not just 'lately'.

I seem to recall (but perhaps not correctly) that NICEIC have sometimes got very close (or 'totally close') to being culprits.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Risteard]

So is Risteard's post actually correct? Surely if the insulation on the band 1 wiring is good to 1000v it can go in the same trunking.

Yes it is.

And the insulation on Cat5e cable or HDMI cable most certainly is not rated for 230V.

 

[winston1]

Yes it is.

And the insulation on Cat5e cable or HDMI cable most certainly is not rated for 230V.

Do other people think so? Risteard has a habit of quoting regs for a foreign country.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Do other people think so? Risteard has a habit of quoting regs for a foreign country.

The only way for you to find out the truth is to buy a copy of the regulations, or go to the library. Risteard is correct, by the way.
Though I don't actually know what a particular HDMI cable is rated at...

 

[Risteard]

Do other people think so? Risteard has a habit of quoting regs for a foreign country.

Risteard's only habit is being 72% too awesome.

 

[securespark]

An apology would be appreciated.

You knew very well you were posting in a thread with reference to electrical issues, yet you posted completely irrelevant stuff and when called out for it you get the hump and want an apology?

You're having a laugh mate.

 

[winston1]

You knew very well you were posting in a thread with reference to electrical issues, yet you posted completely irrelevant stuff and when called out for it you get the hump and want an apology?

You're having a laugh mate.

Since when has RF not been electrical?

 

[securespark]

completely irrelevant stuff

You can (and probably will) argue that the references to Band I and Band II you made were relevant to this thread, but they were not.

 

[John D v2.0]

I came across the same question regarding running elv and lv together, when i bought a unit that combined mains power and 10v speed control in the same cable and enclosure.
The answer was that when only basic insulation is present for example in a cable or enclosure, all conductors must be insulated to the highest voltage present. And they were in that case.
This would also apply to singles in conduit as the conduit is the enclosure, but at the time i went away with the impression that in trunking the mains cable would be fully sheathed anyway in which case it's safe for anything? What else do we expect to happen.
Obviously there's the catch all about not interfering with other services, but that doesn't mean separate conduit.

 

[JohnW2]

.... The answer was that when only basic insulation is present for example in a cable or enclosure, all conductors must be insulated to the highest voltage present. And they were in that case. ... This would also apply to singles in conduit as the conduit is the enclosure, but at the time i went away with the impression that in trunking the mains cable would be fully sheathed anyway in which case it's safe for anything? What else do we expect to happen.

That all corresponds with common safe. If, as is the case, it is considered safe for an insulated-and-sheathed cable carrying LV to be touched by a person, or to come into contact with something earthed, then, logically speaking, it ought to be OK for it to be in contact even with a bare conductor (whether carrying ELV or LV), so I see no logical reason why there should be any concern about an insulated-and-sheathed cable carrying LV being in contact with a conductor carrying ELV which was not "insulated to LV".

Kind Regards, John

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

That all corresponds with common safe. If, as is the case, it is considered safe for an insulated-and-sheathed cable carrying LV to be touched by a person, or to come into contact with something earthed, then, logically speaking, it ought to be OK for it to be in contact even with a bare conductor (whether carrying ELV or LV), so I see no logical reason why there should be any concern about an insulated-and-sheathed cable carrying LV being in contact with a conductor carrying ELV which was not "insulated to LV".

Indeed. However I think the wording of 528.1 makes it fail in the strictest sense. I am prepared to let common sense prevail.
This why I said in post #24:
"Regarding band i/band ii, I took a view. This was that if the two cables were safe next to each other in the open (or safe enough to hold in the hand), then they were safe near each other in a two inch conduit. (Strictly speaking this does not meet regulations.)"

 

[JohnW2]

Indeed. However I think the wording of 528.1 makes it fail in the strictest sense. I am prepared to let common sense prevail.

Indeed, that's why I was careful to stress that I was talking about what was 'common sense' or 'logical'. As you say, if the ELV cables are not 'insulated to LV' then the situation would be non-compliant with 528.1 - but, in my opinion (and seemingly probably your opinion too), that's because I do not regard that regulation as corresponding to either common sense or logic!

If the insulation of the LV conductors were not adequate to prevent the LV coming into contact with things external to the cable, then I think there would be far more to worry about than whether or not there were any ELV cables 'in proximity'!

Kind Regards, John