providing power to a moving kitchen island

[opps]

Entirely inappropriate, unnecessary, and not compliant with BS7671.

I freely admit to not being familiar with BS7671, are you able to post a link to the specific part that says that PowerCon True1 connectors will not be suitable?

Thanks.

 

[opps]

How big are the islands?
It would be complicated or messy to have a system that either requires a 13A plug that connects to a 13a socket on the fixed island, or a dedicated lead and non domestic plug/socket.
I have used gear where two components would slide together, the moveable part having pins so that once the movable parts aligned, power was connected. Tons of work to make it work in a domestic environment.

Why not just fit enough sockets to the fixed island so that anything on the movable island can be plugged into it? Most things have an 18" to 36" lead.

I get what you are saying but he is adamant that he doesn't want sockets on the fixed island only. From memory the fixed island plus the moving island will be just about 3m long.

 

[JohnW2]

I assumed that the Powercon True connector would be acceptable. The internal connections don't seem to be accessible unless someone wants to physically insert a thin object. I get BernardGreens point about a lack of shutters but as per my earlier post, my Festool PlugIt connectors do not have shutters nor do other connectors such as the MasterPlug/PermaPlug connectors.

I freely admit to not being familiar with BS7671, are you able to post a link to the specific part that says that PowerCon True1 connectors will not be suitable?

As you have seen, I've already made the point that we all have, and use, cables which have unshuttered female connectors at one end.

BS7671 does not allow unshuttered sockets as part of the 'fixed electrical installation' in a domestic property. However, unless one can argue that what we are talking about is 'part of the fixed electrical installation' (which I wouldn't attempt!), it is not within the scope of BS7671, anyway - and, as above, we have the evidence of our eyes of millions of unshuttered female connectors on leads being in use.

However, I do personally think that, as has been suggested, the simplest (and I would think 'best') solution would be to have the sockets on the movable island wired to a short length of cable ('curly' or straight) with a standard 13A plug on the end of it, normally stored in a compartment/drawer/whatever of the movable island, which could simply be plugged into a socket on the fixed island when required. Apart from anything else, I would personally regard that as looking less 'industrial' than PowerCon connectors, hence more aesthetically appropriate for a kitchen.

However, the aesthetics are all down to person choice - despite what some have suggested, I would say that, electrically speaking, and of the approaches which has been suggested would be OK.

Kind Regards, John

 

[bernardgreen]

I don't see why the lack of shutters is an issue.

Think about inquisitive little children who might push a bit of metal into a hole, unlikely but a moment of inattention and the results would be very distressing.

 

[Sureitsoff?]

you could say the same about a laptop power supply mains lead with figure of 8 or cloverleaf socket

 

[bernardgreen]

You could say the same about a laptop power supply mains lead with figure of 8 or cloverleaf socket

I do. and I say it about kettle leads as well.

 

[JohnW2]

Think about inquisitive little children who might push a bit of metal into a hole, unlikely but a moment of inattention and the results would be very distressing.

We all know that but, as I wrote ...

.... There can be very few households in the country which do not have, and use, at least some leads which have a BS1363 plug on one end and an unshuttered female connector on the other end (which is what the OP appears to be talking about), even if you consider them "unsuitable for household use" - whether for kettles/percolators etc., PCs, laptop chargers, TVs A-V equipment or whatever. I have, and use, countless of them.

Do you not have, and use, any? Do you regard them as "unsuitable for household use"?

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

are you able to post a link to the specific part that says that PowerCon True1 connectors will not be suitable?

No, because BS7671 contains information on what is suitable, rather than what isn't.

This is what is permitted:

 

[JohnW2]

No, because BS7671 contains information on what is suitable, rather than what isn't. ... This is what is permitted:

Yes - but, as I recently wrote, that regulation relates to 'socket outlets' that are part of a fixed domestic electrical installation, and I don't really think that 'leads' are that or, indeed, are within the scope of BS7671 at all.

As I asked you before, what about the countless millions of leads with an unshuttered female connector on one end which are used in virtually every household environment. Do you really regard them as "unsuitable for household use"?

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

As you are well aware, BS7671 applies to fixed electrical installations. Other standards are applicable to electrical equipment and flexible leads for connecting them.

For the OPs described purpose, at least one of the powerCon connectors would be part of the fixed electrical installation in a household situation.
It is not an appropriate use of that product, as it doesn't comply with any of the standards listed in 55.1, and as powerCon connectors are intended for use by skilled or instructed persons, there is no way that they can be made suitable for use in someone's kitchen.

 

[mattylad]

Why try and be fancy doo dah with different plug/sockets.
Use a std 3 pin one that will also - when needed allow it to be plugged into a socket on the wall - or another extension lead plugged into the fixed island as and when needed.

 

[JohnW2]

As you are well aware, BS7671 applies to fixed electrical installations.

Indeed - that's what I wrote.

For the OPs described purpose, at least one of the powerCon connectors would be part of the fixed electrical installation in a household situation.

As I said/implied, that is the debatable issue. As I keep saying, I (and I imagine most people) have many pieces of (clearly 'portable') electrical equipment that are powered by connecting an unshuttered female connector to them, but it would make no sense to describe any of them as being 'part of the fixed electrical installation', and the same for the lead, which probably spends much/most of its time unplugged and stored in a drawer of suchlike.

It is not an appropriate use of that product, as it doesn't comply with any of the standards listed in 55.1, and as powerCon connectors are intended for use by skilled or instructed persons, there is no way that they can be made suitable for use in someone's kitchen.

This really does seem to be an essentially 'bureaucratic' argument. Yes, as bernard has said, there is a theoretical safety issue with any unshuttered socket or female connector, but we accept that in terms of the sort of connectors I have mentioned. You're a very intelligent and sensible guy, so I'm sure you're not suggesting that there is "no way that a 'kettle lead' can be made suitable for use in a kitchen" by people who are not 'skilled or instructed persons' - so what is the difference you perceive? I would say that it does not take a lot of imagination to think of reasons why the kettle lead poss greater potential hazards than does what the OP proposes.

I have said, more than once, that I would not personally regard the proposal as particularly sensible, and not (for me) event aesthetically ideal - but that's a different matter.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Why try and be fancy doo dah with different plug/sockets. ... Use a std 3 pin one that will also - when needed allow it to be plugged into a socket on the wall - or another extension lead plugged into the fixed island as and when needed.

As I understand it, with what he proposes he would be able to 'plug it into a socket on the wall' (rather than socket on the fixed island) if he ever wished to - since it will have a standard BS1363 plug - all the discussion/argument is about what connector, if any (as said, I would not have any), is on the other (movable island) end of the cable.

Kind Regards, John

 

[mattylad]

Absolutely, have a curly cable and a little recess to put the cable into when being stored away.

 

[flameport]

That warning is ample evidence that those connectors are entirely unsuitable for household use.

Read the rest here: https://www.neutrik.com/en/product/nac3fx-w-top