Running a 4 kW motor

[ban-all-sheds]

The point is that 230/400 motors are available

Were they only ever made after inverters which produce 230V 3-phase came into being?

 

[Jackrae]

If the motor is designed to operate at 400v (star) and the star point is available in the termination head then it is capable of being configured to operate from a 230v, 3-phase inverter (since all three winding ends are available) when reconfigured to a delta format.

Edited to remove remove previous incorrect statement

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So where were they used "before the inverter "came into being""?

Where had/has a 133/230V supply?

 

[flameport]

Where had/has a 133/230V supply?

Some parts of Europe apparently: http://www.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=88103
Also explains why double pole MCBs are rather more common there.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Sorry, but what that thread tells me is that 133/230 is very rare and getting rarer. I cannot see how there would ever have been a big enough market for 230V 3P motors for manufacturers to bother, or if they once did, why they are still.

 

[Jackrae]

So where were they used "before the inverter "came into being""?

Where had/has a 133/230V supply?

I recall visiting Menorca in the mid 80s and at that time supply sockets were a mixture of 127 and 220

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Was there a big market in Menorca for 230V 3-phase motors?

This is what I'm struggling with - the idea that there were enough people with 133/230V supplies to make it worthwhile to build so many motors that it then became worthwhile to make 230V 3P inverters.

 

[dave1w]

In the US there is apparently a few different 3 phase ratings, but 230ish seems to be quite common. I’d imagine that would be a big enough market for them. Particularly as they are for the smaller stuff.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Are you looking at declared US voltages such as 120/240, 110/220 etc?

 

[Jackrae]

Think this thread has kind of lost track of the OPs original enquiry.
I'm sure if BAS were to contact the IET they could give him a run-down on small 3-ph motor winding details for the past 50 years or so.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm sure they could.

I was (and still am) surprised to find that 133/230V is widespread enough worldwide for motors to have been made for it, and then later single to 3-phase converters made to mimic it. In all my years of specifying cables, PDUs, power supplies etc for IT equipment for installation in all sorts of countries it was not a voltage I ever came across.

 

[Jackrae]

But the subject surely related (in some way) to 230/400 motors, not 133/230 ones

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It does - Indonesia has a 230/400 supply according to this: https://www.worldstandards.eu/three-phase-electric-power/

A single phase input, 3 phase 400V output inverter is very hard, if not impossible, to find. You could try a single phase 230V input, 3 phase 230V output inverter

Which was when I started asking about 3-phase supplies with a phase-to-phase voltage of 230V, as it wasn't something I'd ever heard of.

 

[dave1w]

Looking into pricing up the two paths I have, getting a 230/400 3 phase for around £200 and another £200 at least for the inverter drive, with the benefit of good speed control etc, or an equivalent single phase motor for around £300, with the correct breaker and cable ( which would need to go in anyway)

Having had the electricians putting in new wiring to the kitchen, they are coming back to put in 10mm2 cable in the new year, and it’s only a run of around 4 meters maximum.

I’m inclined to go the single phase route now.

 

[Adam_151]

I wouldn't advise going SP jsut to save £100. A 4kw SP induction motor is likely to cause voltage sags when it starts, and the DNO may well tell you thats unacceptable on a domestic supply, It'd also need to be on a C type breaker at least (which might not be available for whatever domestic board you have)