S Plan Plus extra zone valve wiring.

[robbie77]

Thanks yet again Mr H!

 

[D_Hailsham]

Thanks yet again Mr H!

Does that mean it now works?

 

[robbie77]

Arghhhh!

I hope someone can help. They may need patience, please bear with me!

I'm not having much luck with this.
I can get the controller to work on continuous or from the once function. I can get hot water or central heating this way.

I can't get the Auto function to work using the upstairs, downstairs or hot water tank thermostat.

I tried D_Hailsham's instructions but ran into problems:
CH ON and HW ON, HW stat common and both thermostat lives went to terminal 6, I had trouble getting things to work like this.

I have gone back to plan posted earlier where HW ON goes to 6 and CH ON terminal 4.
Both upstairs and downstairs thermostats are connected as follows.

Downstairs switched live goes to terminal 5 (same terminal as the downstairs brown zone valve)

Upstairs switched live goes to terminal 7 (same terminal as the downstairs brown zone valve as per D_H instructions) .

Both thermostat lives go to terminal 4 (same as HW ON)
Neutrals go to terminal 2 (with all the other neutrals).

Thermostat is the Honeywell T6360B - Terminal 3 switched live.

Does this sound correct? It's not calling the heating on!?
It's frustrating!!
I'm assuming the witched live on the thermostat activates the brown wire on the motorised valve. How does the thermostat get power if the live is connected to the HW ON which has no voltage on the ON position?

Cheers!

 

[Norcon]

From what I've read you have a 3 zone heating system with a 2 channel programmer. Is that correct?

 

[D_Hailsham]

I tried D_Hailsham's instructions but ran into problems:

Then I had better try and sort it out.

CH ON and HW ON, HW stat common and both thermostat lives went to terminal 6, I had trouble getting things to work like this.

Five wires to terminal 6? Where did I say this?

I have gone back to plan posted earlier where HW ON goes to 6 and CH ON terminal 4.
Both upstairs and downstairs thermostats are connected as follows.

Downstairs switched live goes to terminal 5 (same terminal as the downstairs brown zone valve)

Correct

Upstairs switched live goes to terminal 7 (same terminal as the downstairs brown zone valve as per D_H instructions).

Correct

Both thermostat lives go to terminal 4 (same as HW ON)

I think you mean terminal 4 (same as CH ON)
If so, that's OK

Neutrals go to terminal 2 (with all the other neutrals).

Correct

Thermostat is the Honeywell T6360B - Terminal 3 switched live.

Does this sound correct? It's not calling the heating on!?

So far everything is correct.

I'm assuming the witched live on the thermostat activates the brown wire on the motorised valve. How does the thermostat get power if the live is connected to the HW ON which has no voltage on the ON position?

Your assumption is correct, but the thermostat live (1) terminals should be connected to the CH ON terminal which is connected to terminal 4.

You need to check which terminals CH ON and HW ON are connected to.

Could you also check that HW OFF is not connected.

From what I've read you have a 3 zone heating system with a 2 channel programmer. Is that correct?

Yes. The two heating zones are sharing the same channel on the programmer; it's just the temperatures which are being separately controlled.

 

[robbie77]

Then I had better try and sort it out.

Thanks

I was exasperated with the whole thing. I left the upstairs thermostat on and the hot water on and left the programmer on auto.
I went to the pub and came back to the house being red hot upstairs and piping hot water!.

I'm just wondering if all the messing around and testing of thermostats it meant it needed to be left alone for a while to get temperature values!?

Anyway so far so good

Couple of questions though.

1. If I turn the thermostat to higher than 15 c then the boiler cuts in and you can hear it click. If I leave it a 10 c or no click should the heating system kick in ?

2. If I use the continuous function on the programmer this opens both valves upstairs and downstairs for CH and there is nothing I can do about this short of getting a 3 channel programmer?

3. Similar to above for the once function on the programmer of having timed periods on and off for CH Is it both downstairs and upstairs on?
Anyway around this?


Many thanks

 

[D_Hailsham]

I left the upstairs thermostat on and the hot water on and left the programmer on auto.
I went to the pub and came back to the house being red hot upstairs and piping hot water!.

The "Auto" setting just means that it will turn on and off according to the times you have programmed e.g: 0700 - ON; 0900 - OFF; 1700 - ON; 2300 - OFF.

I'm just wondering if all the messing around and testing of thermostats it meant it needed to be left alone for a while to get temperature values!?

Sounds like it.

If I turn the thermostat to higher than 15 c then the boiler cuts in and you can hear it click. If I leave it a 10 c or no click should the heating system kick in?

The temperature set on the thermostat is the temperature you want in the room. If the room is colder than the set temperature, the boiler will come on to heat the room up to the set temperature; if the room is hotter, there is no need to turn the boiler on. If you turn the stat up from min it will click at about the room temperature and if you turn it down it will click at a lower temperature. The difference between these temperatures is the "differential". On old mechanical thermostats the differential could be as much as 3 or 4 degrees. This was noticeable so people were continually turning the thermostat up and down as they got too hot and then too cold. Modern digital thermostats have a differential of 1 degree or less, which isn't noticeable.

If I use the continuous function on the programmer this opens both valves upstairs and downstairs for CH and there is nothing I can do about this short of getting a 3 channel programmer

"Continuous" means that you want the heating on 24 hours a day. The valves are controlled by the thermostats. So if the temperature is below that set the valve will open and the boiler light; and vice versa.

Similar to above for the once function on the programmer of having timed periods on and off for CH Is it both downstairs and upstairs on?

The "Once" function just ignores the intermediate ON and OFF times you have set. It turns on at the first ON and OFF at the last OFF(0700 and 2300, in example above).

As both upstairs and downstairs are controlled from the same channel on the programmer, the upstairs and downstairs will always have the same time settings (Auto, Once, Continuous, Off).

If you want completely independent time control upstairs and downstairs, you will have to install either a three channel programmer or a separate single channel programmer for upstairs or downstairs, whichever is easier.

 

[robbie77]

That clears things up a bit!


Couple more small queries.....

So if the heating is set to continuous and both thermostats are OFF then in theory the boiler will not fire until the thermostat is raised to above the current temperature- I think thats what you saying.


If the auto function is on and I turn the thermostat up will this trigger the boiler or will I need it set to continous for this?

I've moved from a mid terrace house to an old draughty detatched house so am trying to make it as economical and effiecient as I can.
Nearly all rads have TRV's the loft is insulated and boarded. Just need to train the Mrs how to close doors!

 

[D_Hailsham]

So if the heating is set to continuous and both thermostats are OFF then in theory the boiler will not fire until the thermostat is raised to above the current temperature- I think that's what you saying.

Correct.

If the room temperature is 15C, the boiler will not come on until the thermostat is set to higher than 15C.

If the auto function is on and I turn the thermostat up will this trigger the boiler or will I need it set to continuous for this?

That will depend on whether you are in an ON part of the auto cycle. Say you have set the Auto times to 0700 ON, 0900 OFF, 1700 ON, 2300 OFF. The boiler can only light between 0700 and 0900 and between 1700 and 2300. So, if you turn the stat up between 0900 and 1700, or between 2300 and 0700, nothing will happen as the timer is set to OFF during those times.

the loft is insulated and boarded.

What about the walls? Have they been cavity filled - if it's not a sold walled house?

 

[robbie77]

What about the walls? Have they been cavity filled - if it's not a sold walled house?

No. No I haven't but I have thought about it. Maybe it isn't the can o' worms it once was. I am always worried about the risk of something going wrong (damp). It migth make sense as I do have brick cavity walls and the house was built around 1900 so only insulation is a bit of horse hair in the plaster!

I take it that D_H is a fan?

I was going to save up to get more double glazing next.

Thanks for the help.

 

[D_Hailsham]

No. No I haven't but I have thought about it. Maybe it isn't the can o' worms it once was. I am always worried about the risk of something going wrong (damp). It might make sense as I do have brick cavity walls and the house was built around 1900 so only insulation is a bit of horse hair in the plaster!

Are you sure there is a cavity in the wall? Most houses built then were max 13" solid walls; I know my previous 1905 house had them.

Provided the damp course is OK there should not be any damp problems. In any case most damp problems are caused by lack of ventilation and cold surfaces. Modern products are not hygroscopic and do not allow water to travel through them.

I take it that D_H is a fan?

Had it put into the current house about four years ago. The inside temperature only drops about 4-5 degrees overnight, even when it is -10 outside. You can get free/cheap insulation - check out Energy Savings Trust Grant Search.

You may even be able to get you loft insulation topped up to the recommended 270mm.

I was going to save up to get more double glazing next.

Cavity and loft insulation will be more cost effective.

 

[robbie77]

I think the walls do have a cavity, although I understand that it was unusual at the time. The house belonged to a colliery manager so they tended to be a bit better made up north.
I will seriously consider the cavity insulation if your heat retention is that good on an old house. Is it terraced, detatched though?
Ill see what the energy trust comes up with. I don't think the bats in my roof will like a stranger furkling around in their insulation though

 

[D_Hailsham]

I will seriously consider the cavity insulation if your heat retention is that good on an old house. Is it terraced, detached though?

I think you may have misunderstood what I wrote.

My last house was a 1905 semi with solid walls - no chance of cavity insulation there. My current house is a 1980's detached with cavity walls, which I had filled soon after I moved in nearly five years ago.

I was paying £108 per month at the old house. I'm now paying less than £50 and that does not take price rises into account, which must have nearly doubled in the last five years.