Save £60 Calais to Dover

[AngleEyes]

However I would make a good defender of young girls from getting abused by cultural rape gangs.

Don't be so sexist.
Join the Catholic Church and protect the girls and the boys.

 

[motorbiking]

...endeavour to save lives on the sea.

Which is their entire purpose.

Woody has told us he doesn't mind people drowning. He would not make a good lifeboatman.

Or human being.

Have these boats requested assistance? Is there any reason during the proceeding (3-4 hours typically) to assume they are in danger? Why did the French Authorities, who in may cases baby sit them to the border, not offer to rescue them. Why are they suddenly in need of rescue the moment they cross the territorial water line?

The bay of biscay is very dangerous why would they not station a vessel there? Because their remit is to save lives while operating predominantly in UK coastal and inland waters - as stated in their charter.

We have to balance saving people with discouraging them. If smugglers are able to continue to promote the safety and support of the RNLI as a selling point, then they risk getting overwhelmed. The 5 day analysis I looked at showed almost exclusive migrant rescuing. My view is they should stay out of politics and let the French & UK authorities deal with it.

Good God! How many times are the anti-refugee brigade going to trot out this factually incorrect nonsense?
There is nothing illegal about being a refugee!
There is nothing illegal about claiming asylum!
The only possible route to claim asylum in UK is by arriving by any means possible and claiming asylum!

3. There are no safe and lawful routes available for these people
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/truth-ab...n=BRD_AWA_GEN_dynamic-search-ads&utm_content=​

You are agreeing with me - At the point they set off from France, do they have a lawful right, or leave to enter the UK? If so, why did they need to pay 1000s to smugglers to get them across, when they could have bought a ferry, train or plane ticket?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1971/77/section/24

 

[AngleEyes]

Have these boats requested assistance? Is there any reason during the proceeding (3-4 hours typically) to assume they are in danger? Why did the French Authorities, who in may cases baby sit them to the border, not offer to rescue them. Why are they suddenly in need of rescue the moment they cross the territorial water line?

Your questions are predicated on your biased assumptions. Until you can leave your prejudice outside of the discussion, we going to get nowhere.

The bay of biscay is very dangerous why would they not station a vessel there? Because their remit is to save lives while operating predominantly in UK coastal and inland waters - as stated in their charter.

I agree the Bay of Biscay is a dangerous place, but as afar as I am aware there have been no rescue of refugees from there. Unless they were escaping from somewhere like the Loire Valley.

What do you suggest they do, wait until victims are in the water?

For the Preservation of Life from Shipwreck
https://rnli.org/about-us/how-the-rnli-is-run/royal-charter-and-bye-laws​

We have to balance saving people with discouraging them.

That's a political argument, not a moral or ethical discussion.
As soon as you base your argument on leaving people to drown, you've lost the moral argument.

If smugglers are able to continue to promote the safety and support of the RNLI as a selling point, then they risk getting overwhelmed.

Oh dear!
Your comments are predicated on your biased assumptions. Until you can leave your prejudice outside of the discussion, we are going to get nowhere.

The 5 day analysis I looked at showed almost exclusive migrant rescuing. My view is they should stay out of politics and let the French & UK authorities deal with it.

They are not involved in politics. They are carrying out their intended mission.
You're conflating politics with charitable organisations' raison d'etre.

- At the point they set off from France, do they have a lawful right, or leave to enter the UK?

Yes absolutely it's covered by the UN Charter. They have a legal right to claim asylum in whatever country they choose.
And as the only way of doing that is to be in that country, they have no choice but to use the only route available to them, i.e crossing the channel in dinghies.

If so, why did they need to pay 1000s to smugglers to get them across, when they could have bought a ferry, train or plane ticket?

It's the only option available to them. How many more times are we going round the same old circular argument?
Try buying a plane, train or a ferry ticket without a visa or passport.

 

[Notch7]

My view is they should stay out of politics and let the French & UK authorities deal with it

But the French and British authorities aren’t dealing with it.

The UK doesn’t want them and won’t consider taking more, France already takes 3x more so has no intention of agreeing a deal to stop them leaving France.


If it’s not our problem, so therefore; it’s not Frances problem, it’s not Germany’s problem…..it’s nobody’s problem…..and it becomes the problem for the RNLI, and other charities.



The UK won’t agree to process asylum claims from abroad, so the channel crossing will continue.

 

[motorbiking]

Are they encouraging more or less crossing attempt by offering a pick up service?
Are the French more or less likely to cooperate if we were to advise them to requisition local SARs ops rather than notifying the RNLI of inbound customers?
What would happen if the RNLI were directed to take the people to the nearest French port?

I've no doubt the people in the boats are in danger, but they are in danger the moment they set off, not miraculously once out of French waters. The easier you make it, the more will attempt and ultimately the more will drown.

 

[JP_]

I agree the Bay of Biscay is a dangerous place

My whole family was almost lost in the Bay of Biscay. Massive storm almost capsized the ship I was on - it rolled several degrees further each side than it was designed to survive.

 

[AngleEyes]

Are they encouraging more or less crossing attempt by offering a pick up service?
Are the French more or less likely to cooperate if we were to advise them to requisition local SARs ops rather than notifying the RNLI of inbound customers?
What would happen if the RNLI were directed to take the people to the nearest French port?

I've no doubt the people in the boats are in danger, but they are in danger the moment they set off, not miraculously once out of French waters. The easier you make it, the more will attempt and ultimately the more will drown.

And the solution to all of that: make a safe and viable route for refugees.
As Notch7 said UK already takes in far less than other European countries. There's no reason why that should increase if the route was safe and viable. And it would put criminal gangs out of the market with a stroke.

 

[JP_]

As I mentioned before, the RNLI just save people at sea. They don't care who is in trouble, why they are in trouble, or who calls it in - if they are aware of people in trouble in the sea, they get out and try to save them.

It is a concept that many people just cannot understand, which explains why there is suddenly so much hostility to the RNLI - people assume that they must be following some sort of political agenda. But they aren't, they're just doing their job, which is saving lives.

 

[motorbiking]

I have no hostility to the RNLI, though some of the HQ staff are a bit too corporate, but that is the same for many charities. I was merely taking issue with "spreading rumours" when the claims of the DM seem to be true.

Whatever your take, its getting out of control and the RNLI wont have the resources to help with just two boats offering a taxi service

 

[^woody^]

As I mentioned before, the RNLI just save people at sea. They don't care who is in trouble, why they are in trouble, or who calls it in - if they are aware of people in trouble in the sea, they get out and try to save them.

It is a concept that many people just cannot understand, which explains why there is suddenly so much hostility to the RNLI - people assume that they must be following some sort of political agenda. But they aren't, they're just doing their job, which is saving lives.

Why do people merrily sailing across the sea under their own power and navigation actually need "saving". Note the difference in rescuing and pre-arranged picking up.

 

[AngleEyes]

Whatever your take, its getting out of control and the RNLI wont have the resources to help with just two boats offering a taxi service

Why do people merrily sailing across the sea under their own power and navigation actually need "saving". Note the difference in rescuing and pre-arranged picking up.

With attitudes like this there's never going to be a humanitarian answer to the problem.
Perhaps you'll both be smugly satisfied when more refugees drown.
It's a disgusting way of 'sending a message' to refugees that they are not welcome in UK.

 

[Notch7]

Why do people merrily sailing across the sea under their own power and navigation actually need "saving". Note the difference in rescuing and pre-arranged picking up.

Ding dong

 

[motorbiking]

With attitudes like this there's never going to be a humanitarian answer to the problem.
Perhaps you'll both be smugly satisfied when more refugees drown.
It's a disgusting way of 'sending a message' to refugees that they are not welcome in UK.

The humanitarian solution is to provide funds to neighbouring countries to help them assist those fleeing, so that they don’t journey thousands of miles at the hands of gangsters and have a reasonable chance of getting back to the homes they reluctantly left once the cause has been resolved. Once they are safe wherever they end up. They can apply to go wherever they want under the same rules everyone else applies.

 

[^woody^]

With attitudes like this there's never going to be a humanitarian answer to the problem.
Perhaps you'll both be smugly satisfied when more refugees drown.
It's a disgusting way of 'sending a message' to refugees that they are not welcome in UK.

The solution is to tow the damn boats back to France.

Or as soon as the illegal is found in Blighty, give them a cuppa while they wait for a plane to take them back to whence they came or somewhere safe near home.

That is the message that should be given, and the one that every illegal can text back on their free phone to their friends and family who are waiting safely in one of the 10 countries they are passing through.

 

[JP_]

The solution is to tow the damn boats back to France.

Or as soon as the illegal is found in Blighty, give them a cuppa while they wait for a plane to take them back to whence they came or somewhere safe near home.

That is the message that should be given, and the one that every illegal can text back on their free phone to their friends and family who are waiting safely in one of the 10 countries they are passing through.

But what will stop them coming back again, or all the others?
If they fail to be granted asylum, then they will then go back. If they get asylum, they are not illegal, and can start to contribute to our society.