Self fitted heat pump (experimental)

[Dork Lard]

Don't be silly; it's purely math. If you have a crap house that requires a 30kW boiler to overcome the heat losses and provide a warm environment for the occupants, swapping that out for a 12kW heat pump is naturally going to realise a scenario where it is "not enough"

Given that we can design and implement houses that have no heating system at all, any scenario where a heating/cooling system is "not enough" is entirely the fault of the designer

You would be making a very big mistake if you mistakenly thought that Dork didn't know much about this subject.

Heat pumps are nonsensical with regards to the average UK home.


P.S. I am one of the small syndicate of major private donors that enabled Salford Uni's 'Energy House' to exist. You may think of it as an oxymoron from one of your worlds most insincere contradictions in terms . . . But Dork cares more for 'mother' than most of you muppets / Marxist revolutionaries.

 

[charliegolf]

I'd be making a big mistake if I thought you knew anything about anything,

 

[mitch66]

Hi B,
I mentioned I have a 1986 boiler, so I may inprove on that, I could replace it, but know that they are being fazed out, so what to do?
C.

When's that then? Gas was being stopped in New build back in 2016. I wonder how that went?

 

[jeds]

New gas supplies are getting rarer and rarer. I know several developers that could not get new gas supplies for new-builds this year, even though it's in the road. And anyway, it would be nigh on impossible to get a SAP to pass with gas and it's been basically impossible with oil for a few years now. An all out ban on new gas or oil has been muted for 2025 for a few years now, but I gather it hasn't quite got past parliament yet. It will be in the next 5 years though. No doubt about that.

 

[robinbanks]

and have read about the low quality heat of heatpumps

Sounds like you're making a poor choice of reading material, are misinterpreting it or are not explaining your understanding well. By and large it is not the heat pump that is low quality; they're simple devices that produce what we might refer to as low grade heat. This means they excel at producing warm water and this can viably be used to heat a house of the house is well engineered

UK houses are typically not well engineered and I blame this on inadequate regulation - for too many years insulation spec demanded by UK regs was woeful, though by 2025 that situation will be much improved. Air tightness control is still woeful and will still be after the 2025 update, but it is finally starting to get some attention.

Consumer preference hasn't helped shape the situation either; do you know anyone who looked at a house's EPC as part of their purchasing decision? I'd be amazed if you said yes.. people here will buy some beautiful Victorian pile with is marvellous original features like decorative coving, blah blah doors, solid stone walls, draughty sash windows etc, and then complain that it costs a fortune to heat..

Switch things up and take a look at something certified by the Passivhaus institute - a house that doesn't need a heating system because it is so good at containing the heat generated by the human activity and solar gain coming through the windows - this is the opposite end of the scale to UK volume house building.

--

If you want your existing ooorly insulated, draughty house to work with a typical heat pump there aren't any half measures - you're looking at a full system of works to strip the interior or exterior and apply a continuous layer of insulation that is bridged in as few locations as possible, and in a layer that excludes designs and prevents warm air in your house just leaking away into the world. If you're having underfloor heating (the ideal emitter for a heat pump) that might involve ripping up existing floors and insulating under them

Or you could do what many people do; be seduced by some advert promising the moon on a stick, install a heat pump that's half the power of your existing gas boiler, wring the nuts off it staying as warm as you did before until the next electricity bill arrives then, when you've regained consciousness declare it to be a pile of crap and put it on eBay

 

[robinbanks]

Got access to free wood ??

Burning stuff is antisocial, and if the problem is "my house quickly loses any heat the heating system puts into it" then "light more/bigger bonfires inside it" is not the solution

 

[camerart]

Burning stuff is antisocial, and if the problem is "my house quickly loses any heat the heating system puts into it" then "light more/bigger bonfires inside it" is not the solution

Hi R,
I agree! I was all for multi stoves when I installed it, but they aren't really healthy. I only use it when I've collected odd free stuff.
C

Sounds like you're making a poor choice of reading material, are misinterpreting it or are not explaining your understanding well. By and large it is not the heat pump that is low quality; they're simple devices that produce what we might refer to as low grade heat. This means they excel at producing warm water and this can viably be used to heat a house of the house is well engineered

UK houses are typically not well engineered and I blame this on inadequate regulation - for too many years insulation spec demanded by UK regs was woeful, though by 2025 that situation will be much improved. Air tightness control is still woeful and will still be after the 2025 update, but it is finally starting to get some attention.

Consumer preference hasn't helped shape the situation either; do you know anyone who looked at a house's EPC as part of their purchasing decision? I'd be amazed if you said yes.. people here will buy some beautiful Victorian pile with is marvellous original features like decorative coving, blah blah doors, solid stone walls, draughty sash windows etc, and then complain that it costs a fortune to heat..

Switch things up and take a look at something certified by the Passivhaus institute - a house that doesn't need a heating system because it is so good at containing the heat generated by the human activity and solar gain coming through the windows - this is the opposite end of the scale to UK volume house building.

--

If you want your existing ooorly insulated, draughty house to work with a typical heat pump there aren't any half measures - you're looking at a full system of works to strip the interior or exterior and apply a continuous layer of insulation that is bridged in as few locations as possible, and in a layer that excludes designs and prevents warm air in your house just leaking away into the world. If you're having underfloor heating (the ideal emitter for a heat pump) that might involve ripping up existing floors and insulating under them

Or you could do what many people do; be seduced by some advert promising the moon on a stick, install a heat pump that's half the power of your existing gas boiler, wring the nuts off it staying as warm as you did before until the next electricity bill arrives then, when you've regained consciousness declare it to be a pile of crap and put it on eBay

Hi R,
I'm not asking about my house system for experimenting, only the heat exchange technology.
I understand about how fridges work, and want to try some experiments around this only. If it will warms some of my house, then that's a bonus. I'm not reading about it, as I prefer to ask experts with experience to guide the experiments.
So far there's not much here, sadly.
C

 

[robinbanks]

I'm not clear what you're asking. You want to know how a heat exchanger works?

 

[DiyNutJob]

But Dork cares more for 'mother' than most of you muppets / Marxist revolutionaries.

If you care more about the people like the marxists, perhaps you will have more supporters, and more people willing to cooperate with you.

 

[Brigadier]

I'm not clear what you're asking. You want to know how a heat exchanger works?

From what I can tell, the OP wants to do experiments.

The purpose of these being, for a number of set-ups, to evaluate their effectiveness (or otherwise) at warming up a room or rooms of their house.


FWIW, I think the advice already given is more than useful in this regard.
It seems that the OP's "beef" is that the advice already given is not what they want to hear.

 

[DiyNutJob]

Burning stuff is antisocial

What are you talking about? People usually have some good old sing song around camp fires.

So far there's not much here, sadly.

That's because some basics are needed from you. To believe 1kw input can produce, say, 5kw output means you are severely lacking in the basics. The universal formula goes like this: input - waste = output. Waste can never be 0 or negative. In fact waste is often very large, like 50% of input.

 

[jeds]

Air tightness control is still woeful and will still be after the 2025 update, but it is finally starting to get some attention.

Can't fully agree with that part. Air tests weren't the main route of the problem, even prior to the 2022 regulation. The testing is fairly standard and the software is locked and I have never come across a tester (dozens at least) that had the ability to fiddle the test, despite strong offers from builders.

The problem was that the SAP was based on an energy design which is set to a minimum air loss but there was no connect between that and the finished product. I would visit site and find different products to the design; different insulation, different boiler, different windows. I would then take the air test result and the revised as-built details and re-enter it into the SAP. Sometimes it would pass and sometimes not. When it's a 'not' we'd make changes somewhere until it did. Many, many builders told me that 'nobody else does that'. Most just make it pass somehow or even leave the details as designed. I would say a good number of houses completed in the last ten year or so bear little resemblance to the original energy design.

All that is much tighter now. Every junction, product and element must be photographically recorded at the build stage and those details must be signed and lodged with the energy assessor. My assessor told me that he has had six audits since October last year and they go through everything with a fine tooth comb. Any missing details or records have to be gotten and the files made complete. On top of that, general standards of energy design improved a lot in 2022, although there is more to do. It will be interesting to see what 2025 brings.

 

[camerart]

From what I can tell, the OP wants to do experiments.

The purpose of these being, for a number of set-ups, to evaluate their effectiveness (or otherwise) at warming up a room or rooms of their house.


FWIW, I think the advice already given is more than useful in this regard.
It seems that the OP's "beef" is that the advice already given is not what they want to hear.

Hi B,
That's correct.

"FWIW" I should have been clearer at the start. I'm hoping for more technical information, from fridge/heatpump engineers, or similar, as guides for an initial test rig set-up, that will help me waste less time and effort. The source of heat is a main factor.

There are lots of other suggestions, that I'll leave to those that want to reply to them, thanks.

This may not be the correct forum, for this question.
C

 

[denso13]

This may not be the correct forum, for this question.

I was going to mention that. You are probably looking for a more specialised forum, rather than general DIY.

 

[DiyNutJob]

I was going to mention that. You are probably looking for a more specialised forum, rather than general DIY.

What specialised forum can produce 5kw from a 1kw feed? Would it be the ukraine forum?