Should people who refuse a Covid vaccine be denied treatment or charged for it?

[ReganAndCarter]

It's irrelevant what the cause of death was, without the presence of Covid 19 these extra deaths would not have occurred.

Do you not understand;

Died with Covid

Or died within 28 days of testing positive for Covid

does not necessarily mean Covid killed them?

Let me explain for you. If I tested positive for Covid today and got run over by a bus tomorrow, I will be a statistic for dying withing 28 days of testing positive for Covid. But the bus killed me not Covid.

If a relative dies of cancer, do you say "uncle Fred died with cancer" or "uncle Fred died from cancer"? If it was with, then Fred succumbed to something else. Yes, some in the 60,000 will definitely have died solely from Covid, but not the whole 60,000. Possibly a lot less. The stats are skewed with clever words and phrasing to exaggerate the real situation to justify the governments actions. Also remember that the PCR test's accuracy is now being questioned so not only the Covid Death figures, but the whole picture for Covid infection levels may be inaccurate.

Remember these are GOVERNMENT stats, the same government using inflated stats to justify continuous lockdowns. The same goverment run by a known liar and lying, bully-boy Cummings pulling the strings. Yet the sheep still unquestioningly believe everything that is spoon fed to them

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/c...000-people-die-day-statistics-watchdog-750438

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54831334

 

[charliegolf]

I inform myself and take sensible precautions. Certainly don't get swept along with the crowd or indulge myself in mass hysteria.[/QUOTE]

Now that's more like it. Following scientific guidelines IS NOT indulging in mass hysteria. (You didn't reply to my direct questions, so I assume you do all those things.)

 

[charliegolf]

what makes you think that suicides have increased?

Well, the way some of these threads have gone down rabbit holes, I have come close!

 

[ReganAndCarter]

I inform myself and take sensible precautions. Certainly don't get swept along with the crowd or indulge myself in mass hysteria.

Now that's more like it. Following scientific guidelines IS NOT indulging in mass hysteria. (You didn't reply to my direct questions, so I assume you do all those things.)[/QUOTE]

If it was scientific, there wouldn't be a problem. It's the politicians that are the problem.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

If I tested positive for Covid today and got run over by a bus tomorrow, I will be a statistic for dying withing 28 days of testing positive for Covid. But the bus killed me not Covid.

I'd say it was your own fault. You should have been self-isolating.
But as you don't follow the rules maybe it's karma.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

I'd say it was your own fault. You should have been self-isolating.
But as you don't follow the rules maybe it's karma.

Hello Himmy. Long time no see. You still with us? Thought you'd flounced off after I used a nasty word.

Same old pointless drivel I see.

 

[IT Minion]

I'd say it was your own fault. You should have been self-isolating.
But as you don't follow the rules maybe it's karma.

If people can't follow rules for self isolation then how can they be expected to follow the highway code?

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Hello Himmy. Long time no see. You still with us? Thought you'd flounced off after I used a nasty word.

Same old pointless drivel I see.

Just popped back for a quick browse.
I see you now recognise that your word was nasty. That's an improvement.

I think it's reasonable to say no-one dies of, or from, Covid. They all die of complications and repercussions caused by Covid. So your contrast between 'with 'and 'from' is meaningless.

 

[Trazor]

Do you not understand;

Died with Covid

Or died within 28 days of testing positive for Covid

does not necessarily mean Covid killed them?

I understand perfectly, obviously you miss my point.

It does not matter if Covid 19 killed them or not, the 60,000+ extra deaths would not have happened if Covid 19 had not happened.

As per my previous post....

It's IRRELAVENT what the cause of death was, without the presence of Covid 19 these extra deaths would not have occurred.

 

[ReganAndCarter]

I think

Well, that's the first innaccuracy I can see in your post.

They all die of complications and repercussions caused by Covid. So your contrast between 'with 'and 'from' is meaningless.

So, if someone is on their death bed with terminal cancer, they test positive for Covid, then the next day they die before the Covid has had a chance to overwhelm them - they died of cancer. But they'll be a Covid stat. It's a complicated issue, Himmy, so I can see why you struggle to comprehend the fact that dying with or within 28 days of testing positive for Covid does not mean that Covid was definitely the cause. There are so many possible scenarios, but the headline figure that you and many others take as gospel without question is good at boosting the government's case. It's hopeless for any other purpose.

Anyway, nice to see you again Himmy. If you're in the area please drop in again.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

So, if someone is on their death bed with terminal cancer, they test positive for Covid,

If you think that someone who so so close to death from cancer will be tested for Covid, then obviously you are not thinking rationally.

As to how to many people to whom this could occur, do you have an estimate that you've thought of?

Thinking, now there's an idea!

 

[ReganAndCarter]

I understand perfectly, obviously you miss my point.

It does not matter if Covid 19 killed them or not, the 60,000+ extra deaths would not have happened if Covid 19 had not happened.

As per my previous post....

Why would the deaths not have happened without Covid, when the stats aren't saying that they necessarily died of Covid? Just died with a Covid diagnosis.

 

[Trazor]

Why would the deaths not have happened without Covid, when the stats aren't saying that they necessarily died of Covid? Just died with a Covid diagnosis.

Because there is a rolling average year on year, in 2018 541,589 people died, in 2019 53840, the rolling yearly average is very roughly 540,000

The number of deaths for 2020 is projected to exceed 610,000, the only change to the normal order of things is Covid19.

Here is a graph for a portion of this year...............

 

[johnny2007]

It's irrelevant what the cause of death was, without the presence of Covid 19 these extra deaths would not have occurred.

Total boll@x!

 

[Brigadier]

Because there is a rolling average year on year, in 2018 541,589 people died, in 2019 53840, the rolling yearly average is very roughly 540,000

The number of deaths for 2020 is projected to exceed 610,000, the only change to the normal order of things is Covid19.

Here is a graph for a portion of this year...............View attachment 213740

"...... the only thing to change to the normal order of things is Covid 19".

There have been reports on the beeb earlier in the year of people with cancer having their treatment stopped because of the covid situation.
Whether that was done because of limited resources, concern that the cancer patients may actually get covid while coming in for their treatment, or whatever, I don't recall.
Some of those people died. This too was reported on the beeb.
These people are part of your quoted "excess deaths" figure for this year.