Shower related: watts and amps.

From HERE

Most instant electric heaters incorporate a means of compensation for the
variations in mains supply pressures to achieve an even flow and thus a
stable showering temperature. The device used may be one of the
following:
i. Flow regulator
ii. Pressure reducing valve
iii. Fully modulating solenoid valve to accurately control the flow as in the Mira
Advance ATL

Instantaneous electric showers should be fitted with a pressure relief device
or some no less effective device. This is a built-in safety feature to prevent
excessive heater tank pressures, which could be caused by either freezing
or a blocked outlet pipe. If a unit is suspected of being frozen it must not
be used and must be allowed to thaw before use.
The regulator regulates the flow of water using a soft rubber ‘O’ ring that
fits over a tapered insert. The water flow squeezes the ring onto the taper
and so reduces the hole size, thus reducing and regulating the flow rate. It
is not too affected by a back pressure change, e.g. raising or lowering the
handset, and requires higher pressures than other devices to make it work
effectively. The regulator can suffer from hysteresis, i.e. it does not always
return to the same flow after a pressure fluctuation, resulting in a slight
change in the shower temperature.
The pressure reducing valve keeps a constant flow by the action of a spring
on a diaphragm. It is affected by back pressure, but recovers well after
supply pressure changes.
Modulating solenoid valve keeps a constant showering temperature by
varying the flow rate of water to accommodate changes in:
iv. The supply pressure
v. The supply temperature of cold water
vi. The mains electrical voltage.
This is achieved by measuring the flow rate, incoming and outgoing
temperatures of the water and computing the correct flow rate for the
conditions.
 
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That's precisely what I would have expected, and has been the case in every electric shower I've played with - i.e. with the water flow being 'modulated' (by a solenoid valve) but (despite what has been suggested) with no 'modulation' of the electrical current to the heater (i.e. electrically continuously 'on full').

Kind Regards, John
 
Why are you so obsessed John, it a shower, just a particularly good shower?
I'm not 'obsessed'. You made a statement about how your shower operates which is very different from any electric shower I have ever seen - so I would like (for my 'education') to be able to look at documentation about it.

Kind Regards, John
 
I'm not 'obsessed'. You made a statement about how your shower operates which is very different from any electric shower I have ever seen - so I would like (for my 'education') to be able to look at documentation about it.

Kind Regards, John

Done a bit of reading up on it myself on the back of this thread. Seems that certainly some showers modulate the heating element power by means of triac switching, in order to control temperature. Redring Selectronic is one.

None of which means that the design current is reduced, because it may well be that the heater is running full power, so to fit a smaller MCB is still wrong.
 
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Done a bit of reading up on it myself on the back of this thread. Seems that certainly some showers modulate the heating element power by means of triac switching, in order to control temperature. Redring Selectronic is one.
Fair enough - if that's true, it's true - even if, as I said, it's not something I've ever come across. In any event, as you go oi to say ....
None of which means that the design current is reduced, because it may well be that the heater is running full power, so to fit a smaller MCB is still wrong.
Quite. It's not like those situations in which allowance for diversity is allowed, those being situations in which is is statistically extremely unlikely that 'full power' will be drawn for any appreciable time. With a shower, it would presumably be the case that, with some user-selected settings of temp and flow, the heater would almost certainly be on continuously - even if, in some other situations, the electricity usage would be 'modulated'.

Kind Regards, John
 
Fair enough - if that's true, it's true - even if, as I said, it's not something I've ever come across. In any event, as you go oi to say ....
Quite. It's not like those situations in which allowance for diversity is allowed, those being situations in which is is statistically extremely unlikely that 'full power' will be drawn for any appreciable time. With a shower, it would presumably be the case that, with some user-selected settings of temp and flow, the heater would almost certainly be on continuously - even if, in some other situations, the electricity usage would be 'modulated'.

Kind Regards, John

I know for a fact mine does modulate the current, because I checked it with a clip-on. I never investigated the modulation of the water, other than as a user. As a user I found the flow to be constant for any setting, despite variations in the pressure within limits, but the actual flow could be varied by deliberate selection. A triac system, with pulse width modulation, using temperature as source of feedback is straight-forward to arrange.

I have been using the shower almost daily for many years now and unlike many I do carry out regular checks on most things, that includes the MCB's. If I thought it might be a problem (and I don't), I would have replaced it long ago. £5 for a replacement MCB will hardly break my bank. It runs for maybe a couple or so minutes per day and that probably at less than full Kw output - hardly time for it to heat up or suffer damage. I wasn't suggesting that anyone else do it, simply what I am finding I have got away with.
 
From HERE


Modulating solenoid valve keeps a constant showering temperature by
varying the flow rate of water to accommodate changes in:
iv. The supply pressure
v. The supply temperature of cold water
vi. The mains electrical voltage.
This is achieved by measuring the flow rate, incoming and outgoing
temperatures of the water and computing the correct flow rate for the
conditions.

Thanks Bernard..
 
I know for a fact mine does modulate the current, because I checked it with a clip-on. I never investigated the modulation of the water, other than as a user. As a user I found the flow to be constant for any setting, despite variations in the pressure within limits, but the actual flow could be varied by deliberate selection. A triac system, with pulse width modulation, using temperature as source of feedback is straight-forward to arrange.
Yes, not difficult to arrange, and Simon has confirmed that at least some apparently do do it. However, as he and I have said, there are bound to be some situations in which the heater could be powered continuously (or very nearly continuously) - e.g. if you turned up both temp and flow to their maximum settings.
I wasn't suggesting that anyone else do it, simply what I am finding I have got away with.
Fair enough. However, what one has "got away with" and what is wise are not necessarily the same thing ... similar to what someone here frequently points out in relation to himself, as things have turned out (so far), I could have refused to wear car seat belts for the past 50 years and would never have come to any harm, but ......!!

Kind Regards, John
 
Thanks Bernard..
You thank him, but he was reporting the situation with a Mira shower which (apparently unlike yours) modulated the water flow, but not the electricity supply to the heater (which is certainly the common situation, and the only arrangement I have personally ever seen in a shower).

Kind Regards, John
 
Done a bit of reading up on it myself on the back of this thread. Seems that certainly some showers modulate the heating element power by means of triac switching, in order to control temperature. Redring Selectronic is one.
I have one of those.

Don't know how it modulates the heating, but it certainly does a fine job of coping with sudden flow-rate changes.
 
It seems that Triton showers do use a triac but how it is used is unclear ( from available information )

The triac may be used as a solid state switch for Power ON power OFF

https://www.tritonshowers.co.uk/spares/triac-and-wires-assembly-p19520903.html?spares=true
0x62.jpg
 
Last edited:
You thank him, but he was reporting the situation with a Mira shower which (apparently unlike yours) modulated the water flow, but not the electricity supply to the heater (which is certainly the common situation, and the only arrangement I have personally ever seen in a shower).

Kind Regards, John

Bernard went to the trouble of researching shower water flow modulation methods.

Your argument seemed to be that the water flow wasn't modulated, Bernard confirmed that some showers are able to do this. My shower seemed to, but I had no definite evidence of this. You also seemed suspicious of my suggestion that the Kw could be variable, again that has been confirmed by Simon - I really was certain of that, from from the precise way it responded to the temperature dial and current flow tests.
 
Your argument seemed to be that the water flow wasn't modulated,....
My argument would only 'seem to be that' to someone who had not read (or understood) what I wrote. I have been saying throughout that every electric shower I have owned, worked on or taken apart (other than really cheapo ones) has used modulation of water flow, but not any modulation of the electricity supply to the heater.
You also seemed suspicious of my suggestion that the Kw could be variable ...
I'm not sure that 'suspicious' is the right word. I was 'surprised' because, as above, it's not something, I'd ever seen - which is why I asked you for the make and model of the shower which you said did it - so that I could try to find some documentation, and learn.

Kind Regards, John
 
My argument would only 'seem to be that' to someone who had not read (or understood) what I wrote. I have been saying throughout that every electric shower I have owned, worked on or taken apart (other than really cheapo ones) has used modulation of water flow, but not any modulation of the electricity supply to the heater.
I'm not sure that 'suspicious' is the right word. I was 'surprised' because, as above, it's not something, I'd ever seen - which is why I asked you for the make and model of the shower which you said did it - so that I could try to find some documentation, and learn.

Kind Regards, John

All showers and hand wash instant water heaters include as a minimum the modulation method of the water via a manual tap control. The much better version is electronic modulation of the water flow. I knew for certain that mine had no manual control at all, I also knew for certain it did include at least three fixed flow levels under electronic control. From its behaviour, I also suspected that rather than three fixed levels, it actually fully variable flow, but I never bothered to investigate it further. The flow did seem to vary slightly between winter and summer cold water temperatures.

To repeat, I was absolutely certain it had variable Kw via a Triac.

.. and with that, I think it is best left..
 
All showers and hand wash instant water heaters include as a minimum the modulation method of the water via a manual tap control.
Indeed, and that's what I've been talking about all along - so I don't understand why you wrote "Your argument seemed to be that the water flow wasn't modulated". It is modulation of the electricity supply to the heater that I've never come across, and that the reason I hoped that I'd be able to look at some documentation for yours, in order that I can learn.

Kind Regards, John
 

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