Smart gas meter not being read

[JohnW2]

I'm with British Gas for both elec and gas. My energy usage displays in my online account seem very hit and miss. Electricity use is shown for all days but gas usage is shown only spasmodically. Weird.

Again I may be wrong,but I would expect that the amount of electricity available to the gas meter is probably so small that communication (with the electricity meter) may often be iffy, hence 'sporadic'.

However, although that obviously prevents/frustrates availability of real-time information about gas usage, I presume that what the gas meter is transmitting is ('cumulative') #meter readings, so the 'holes'in that data should not have any appreciable effect on billing (even if the 'holes'are quite lengthy). To the best of my knowledge,unlike the situation with electricity, 'TOU' is never of interest to gas billing.

Kind Regards, John

 

[davecooper]

Waste of time.
Readings are obviously reaching the electricity meter, as the in-home display gets all of it's information from that.

Whatever problem is elsewhere, either in the data network or at the supplier.
Nothing you can do about it, it's 100% up to the supplier to fix.

Thanks for that. I'm not moving anything now. Now I realise that my electricity meter is getting info from the gas meter (because my IHD is updating correctly), I will be contacting my supplier.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I've no idea. I only switch it on on random occasions (~ once per month?).

All you need do, is leave it on for an hour, and keep an eye of the gas consumption rate - if it changes, it is getting data from the electric meter, and in turn from the gas meter.

 

[ericmark]

To the best of my knowledge,unlike the situation with electricity, 'TOU' is never of interest to gas billing.

I was very interested in the gas consumption, the meter showed how much I had used, but not how much I was using, there was only one item using gas, the boiler, and the boiler could modulate (turn down) so having some think like the clamp on meter used with electric would have told me if the boiler was modulating and by how much. This would have helped setting up the central heating.

Electric is easy, plug in energy monitors, clamp on ammeters, and numerous CT transformers tells me what electric power I am using without any need for a smart meter. I can see today when I made coffee and when daughter has a shower now using oil fired central heating so the gas smart meter is no longer an option. Due to have electric smart meter on the 19th, interesting to see what it can tell me which I don't already know? I think only gain will be auto meter readings and payment for export.

But looking at the pictures it seems it shows electricity now, but gas only what has been used today, so how that would help knowing the amount the boiler has modulated I don't know, seems the gas meter is not very smart? However neither is the electric meter really, it shows no more than the old clamp on energy monitor, but at least does show a now reading.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

But looking at the pictures it seems it shows electricity now, but gas only what has been used today, so how that would help knowing the amount the boiler has modulated I don't know, seems the gas meter is not very smart? However neither is the electric meter really, it shows no more than the old clamp on energy monitor, but at least does show a now reading.

My display does show both instantaneous electric and gas use. Gas isn't updated quite as frequently as electric, but it is useful none the less - I can see on it my boiler modulate down to minimum, and can even check how much each ring uses, on the gas hob.

 

[Vicario]

I have two suppliers - BG for gas and EDF for electricity. I have a smart meter from EDF which works flawlessly. I'm due to have a gas meter installed by BG, so does anyone know if my EDF meter will be able to relay the gas reading to a different supplier? Or will I have to continue with manual gas readings, in which case there's not much point.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I have two suppliers - BG for gas and EDF for electricity. I have a smart meter from EDF which works flawlessly. I'm due to have a gas meter installed by BG, so does anyone know if my EDF meter will be able to relay the gas reading to a different supplier? Or will I have to continue with manual gas readings, in which case there's not much point.

There is no reason why it should not work to relay the readings.

 

[Alec_t]

All you need do, is leave it on for an hour, and keep an eye of the gas consumption rate - if it changes, it is getting data from the electric meter, and in turn from the gas meter.

Thanks. I realise that, but I'm not really interested in monitoring gas usage in detail. I just trust the billing is correct.

 

[Rodders53]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the situation is that the amount of electrical power available to the gas meter is so small (reliant on what it can generate from gas flow) that it could not reliably communicate directly with the IHD- hence the use of an electricity meter as a 'relay point'. One cannot have a 'smart' gas meter without an electricity one.

I am pretty sure all gas smart meters have a battery and no 'turbine electricity generator' inside the gas flow pipe.

Are the meters battery powered?
The electricity meter is mains powered but the gas meter is battery powered. The gas meter battery can be replaced by a Smart Meter Installer and is expected to last the life of the meter (10 to 15 years), however, its life can be greatly reduced by heavy communications such as repeated firmware updates. (Updated: 2023-06-24)
Read more at: https://www.smartme.co.uk/how-they-work.html © SmartMe.co.uk

and that a common issue is that, where the gas meter is distant from the electric meter, said battery gets depleted too quick by a failure to talk to the comms hub in the electric meter reliably; so it keeps trying, and trying and... leading to a blank gas meter display.

The protocol used in the HAN is Zigbee so the gas/ihd/comms should all inter-communicate in a 3-way network (or 4 way if a compliant zigbee 'booster' is provided by the energy supplier.


I believe I've read that some smart water meters might use a turbine to recharge the battery within them? Perhaps?

 

[foxhole]

Your supplier won’t give a toss if you have smart meters that can’t be read remotely they just need to meet government targets .
You can however refuse to pay estimated bills , the only way to annoy them.

 

[JohnW2]

I am pretty sure all gas smart meters have a battery and no 'turbine electricity generator' inside the gas flow pipe.

You may be right. They obviously have a battery (or equivalent), but I thought they were probably rechargeable ones, recharged by some sort of 'turbine generator'.

I believe I've read that some smart water meters might use a turbine to recharge the battery within them? Perhaps?

That certainly seems to be how the so-called 'telemetry' from my water meter works, since it's been in service for very many years without anyone changing any battery. It's really a joke .... although this 'telemetry' was meant to avoid the need for people coming to read the meter, it's range is so limited (presumably because of limited electricity available) that they have to bring a van to the end of my drive in order to obtain readings from the meter

Either way, the amount of electricity available to the gas meter must be pretty small, which is why it does/would not surprise me if communications with the electricity meter were somewhat iffy.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

That certainly seems to be how the so-called 'telemetry' from my water meter works, since it's been in service for very many years without anyone changing any battery. It's really a joke .... although this 'telemetry' was meant to avoid the need for people coming to read the meter, it's range is so limited (presumably because of limited electricity available) that they have to bring a van to the end of my drive in order to obtain readings from the meter

Which beats them by a long way - having to come and knock on your door, to gain access to the house to read the meter. They obviously must read my meter regularly, for the charges match my own readings, they do it regularly, but I have not once seen them at the end of my drive. Meter is at the far end. back of the house from the end of my drive.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

You may be right. They obviously have a battery (or equivalent), but I thought they were probably rechargeable ones, recharged by some sort of 'turbine generator'.

That is what I would assume too.

 

[Rodders53]

You may be right. They obviously have a battery (or equivalent), but I thought they were probably rechargeable ones, recharged by some sort of 'turbine generator'.

Either way, the amount of electricity available to the gas meter must be pretty small, which is why it does/would not surprise me if communications with the electricity meter were somewhat iffy.

No.

They'll be long life Lithium cells. Battery fire alarms wifi interlinked use them and are guaranteed 10 years.
Battery security cameras/doorbell use similar and have quoted 2 year life for 2xAA size. As do many other similar wireless systems in smart homes.

This commercial website suggests it's a peak current volt drop issue (and offer a solution) https://www.cap-xx.com/applications/smart-meters/#
This suggests we already use something similar https://community.eonnext.com/threa...battery-in-the-gas-smart-meter-starts-to-fail

PS Most of the above is news to me. Ain't the WWW wwonderful.

 

[JohnW2]

Which beats them by a long way - having to come and knock on your door, to gain access to the house to read the meter.

In my case, thee didn't even (previously) need to do that. Prior to changing it to the present ('telemetry') one, many years ago, my (indoor) water meter had a hard-wired 'repeater' on an outside wall, so that they could get a reading without requiring access to the inside of the house.

.... but I have not once seen them at the end of my drive. Meter is at the far end. back of the house from the end of my drive.

Mine is quite a long drive, so they nearly always drive onto my property to do it, and hence get detected by CCTV and 'approach detectors'. I've 'intercepted' them on a few occasions, and they have confirmed that they were there 'to get a meter reading'!

Mind you, my LPG tank has a tiny telemetry thingy on top of it (probably about 35-40mm diameter and about 10mm thick) which seems to somehow communicate with my supplier dozens of miles away - and that presumably must be reliant on a non-rechargeable battery (which maybe gets replaced by the 'gas delivery man'?).

Kind Regards, John