solar question

[sealo0]

Hi All

Banging no particular drum, but seeing the other side of Solar is useful


http://www.navitron.org.uk/forum/index.php/board,6.0.html


Mike

 

[oilman]

The sad state of affairs is that a pluming and heating engineer such as yourself doen't know hat he's talking about, my laptop uses 19V and about 5A.

That is electrical power. When you take into account the generating station efficiency and transmission losses you can multiply that by 3. Therefore according to your figures your laptop will demand 300W thermal energy. About the same as a solar panel on an average day.

That's slightly less than a solar thaermal system will produce in one year that god!

Please translate.

A solar thermal system will produce about 380kWh to 500kWh per m2 allowing for heat losses in pipework pump etc.

Not according to this guy, who has measured it.

If all homes had this it would be a signifiacnt reduction in CO2 compared to the norm now.

Negated by China's expansion, each week, every week.

Oil Man - Good luck with the all weather 24/7 solar powered heater.

My house has been using one for years.

 

[Bamber gaspipe]

My house has been using one for years.

Really, then explain your heating system & how it is fed/maintained.

 

[JPC]

It's a shame people think like you. It's why the worlds so polluted and climate change is an issue that's going to make our planet a hard place to inhabit for our children.

Solar should be on all new builds and everyone should have it on their homes and offices.

Your attitude is narrow minded and out of date. Solar is the future and not everybody is as selfish as you are.

It seems a shame you have to be aggresive. you dont know me. the envorimental cost of producing/transporting these chinese made solar systems more than outweighs their benefit, in enviromentals terms.

its folk that can afford solar systems, who want to help the enviroment who are also the ones that have numerous holidays abroad, in my experience.

its a feel good factor thing.

want to safe the planet ?

walk more, use bus, holiday in the uk, insulate your house, low energy bulbs, turn all stanby items off, recycle repair reuse.

as stated i love renewables, but they have got to make sense.


when i said "sell" ...i dont sell them, i meant push/recommend etc.

 

[oilman]

Really, then explain your heating system & how it is fed/maintained.

I won't. Well, not until you start pretending you are grown up, and respecting other people.

 

[elliottt]

He's talking about PV, this thread is about solar thermal. The guy who measured it, in case I'm loosing you here.

300W thermal energy on an average day???????????????

You are talking rubbish.

If your talking heat energy a panel puts out 700W per m2 per hour on a good day.

Your using Photovoltaic figures when we're discussing Thermal. But you obviously don't know the difference.

I suggest you go and read some more info about renewables before you try to carry on with your bizarre posts.

And wow, I'm really impressed with your secret solar energy station, it sounds amazing, but sshhh, keep it quiet.

 

[Corgigrouch]

I am all for using less of our resources and causing less pollution.. However, it is my firm conviction that the entire Climate change/ CO2 issue is just as much *******s as the Ozone issue was.. It is a means to extract money from us by presenting us with a fabricated potential disaster that they can neither prove nor disprove but a lot of government funded scientists are doing very nicely out of this very lucrative gravy train.... If you are going to tell a lie, tell a big one

 

[elliottt]

A solar thermal system will produce about 380kWh to 500kWh per m2 allowing for heat losses in pipework pump etc.

quote]

Oilman - This figure I stated is annual yield and it is per m2 aperture area. Typical house system 3/4 bedroomed 380 kWh for 4.5m2 aperture area for flat plates. 500kWh 3m2 for tubes.

 

[elliottt]

Yeh, the whole issue has become "jobs for the boys" as far as the government is concerned. The Earths climate does cycle and has been so for billions of years. But as a race we should be reducing the impact we have on the planet, without question, regardless of how much money we'll save. The reason for my first post was a comment saying, solar's not worth it because you don't save enough money.

My point is solar works, it's available and should be being used. You will save money but the issue isn't the money it's about reducing your impact on the environment and renewables are going to, and will have to play a part in our future energy use.

 

[heatingman]

Didn't know Resol was Chinese?

 

[elliottt]

Resol is a German Brand.

 

[heatingman]

Sorry, I was being sarcastic.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

i love the idea of renewables...

i find it hard to "sell" solar.

put the £2500 - 3000 in the bank and benefit from 150 interest a year and get your money back whenever you want. !

It's a shame people think like you. It's why the worlds so polluted and climate change is an issue that's going to make our planet a hard place to inhabit for our children.

Solar should be on all new builds and everyone should have it on their homes and offices.

Your attitude is narrow minded and out of date. Solar is the future and not everybody is as selfish as you are.

I fully agree with you.

 

[Doctor Drivel]

If you think solar energy is the answer you are both deluded and a solar salesman. In fact you probably need to be one, to be the other.

You are deluded.

42% of all heat loss in UK homes is via air losses. UK homes are the most air-leaky in the western world as the building regs are not enforced. An air door test should be mandatory on all new and renovated homes.

Zero Heat homes are real and cost nothing more to build than any other house. Deveci in Scotland has built quite a few of them. He even put the figure up comparing the cost of building.

http://www.rgu.ac.uk/sss/research/page.cfm?pge=32982

There is a lot of greenwash about promoting machines that heat and machines that cool. The corporates push these as they make them money and the machines use fuel too.

We think machines can save our lives. What we need is homes that harmonise with nature. We have forgot how to do it. The Green movements should move towards a full push on implementing zero heat homes and good town planning not necessitating the use of cars to buy a loaf. A good old fashioned community that cost the inhabitants virtually nothing to heat or cool their homes.

Timber framed buildings are ideal for superinsulation using TGI "I" beams. See the link to Deveci's homes. The natural void can be filed with spay-in cellulous Warmcell insulation.
http://www.excelfibre.com/building/products3.html
The performance is the equiv to insulation 25% thicker and it makes the homes air-tight for free filling in all the small gaps.

British homes are poor. We build cavity walls!!! Two walls when one will do,. The Germans think we are crazy. The best thing anyone can do with cavity walls is fill the void with insulation. Dot and dab plasterboard is just a waste of time. It creates a chimney that draws heat out of the house, as do cavities.

When renovating a house it is best to:

- insulate under the floors
- fill-in cavities
- use spray-in cellulous insulation in the loft to over 1 foot thick
- Install low "E" triple glazed windows
- install insulated doors with no letter boxes
- remove chimney breasts if possible as these are high heat sinks
- dig around the house and install below ground insulation against the foundations
- If possible install external insulation on the walls
- on south facing roofs fit solar panels
- If a south facing roof, convert to a solar roof, that will produce enough heat to run low temp UFH on ground floor. The upstairs will not need heating
- fit conservatories which act as insulation against the main house and can be used to generate heat that is fanned into the main house.
- do not heat conservatories using purchased fuel
- As the house will be air-tight fit a Heat Recovery and Vent System
- Have no metal penetrating the walls. Vents out through roof and heat recovered.. Discharge pipes directly into internal drains using HepVO traps
- If space fit a heat pipe. A plastic 6" pipe spiralling the outer of the house under ground. This heats and cools the house as air is drawn in and can be fed into a heat recovery and vent system.
Try this:
http://mb-soft.com/solar/saving.html
In Germany they spiral a 8-12" pipe around a house foundations. Easy to do when building or renovating. Pretty common there.

So, fitting solar panels on superinsulated house built to passive solar standards is well, well, worth it.

Elliot you are a shining light in dark sea of ignorance.

 

[simond]

One of the the government's definitions of a zero carbon home is one that is not connected to the national grid (source: Radio 4 debate this week).

Consequently, there are only 60 known zero carbon houses in the UK. The government rules were changed to make it almost impossible for housebuilders to achieve the zero carbon rating, especially in social housing.

The Doctor's rantings seem to ignore that our government have no interest in zero carbon homes. They want solar panels and wind generators.

Everyone thinks they know what a solar panel or a wiind turbine is, if you were to ask the man in the street for a definition of a zero carbon home he would struggle. And you couldn't tell one from another in a row of houses, unless the government were to force them to be painted green

This debate was about the merits of fitting solar inside what we have to assume not be one of the 60 homes Doctor D is ranting about. Therefore it is off topic.

With his half researched but strong views I suggest the Doctor invests in a zero carbon home himself (no: 61), with a big heatstore and a large box of Kleenex.

At least we wouldn't have to read his posts when the wind wasn't blowing.