Spirit levels - the choices arrh!

[jeds]

I should imagine AndyJay has gone for a lie down? When you do recover, this will do what you need:

Magnusson Box Beam Level 47 1/4" (1200mm) - Screwfix

Order online at Screwfix.com. Anodised aluminium construction. Robust and highly accurate level with magnetic points in the base for use on metal surfaces and pipes. Features shock-resistant rubber end caps to help protect from impact and solid block vials for finding true horizonal and vertical...

www.screwfix.com

Like all spirit levels, check the bubble when you get it and every now and then depending on how much and what type of use.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I'd use a gradient level for a patio. You could buy some fancy electronic adjustable thing if you want the best, or at the cheapest end of the scale you could tape a block under one end of your level but that's not that good as it only works over its full length, no use at all for any smaller bits, e.g. edgings, corners etc.

A water level is as cheap as they come, and have guaranteed accuracy. Just a bit of pipe, and a pint of water - easy enough to make your own, just make sure there are no trapped bubbles in the pipe.

 

[noseall]

However a good tradesman knows how to use an amateur tool professionally, that is the difference.

Correct.

 

[noseall]

A water level is as cheap as they come, and have guaranteed accuracy. Just a bit of pipe, and a pint of water - easy enough to make your own, just make sure there are no trapped bubbles in the pipe.

Ok for setting out datums yes. No good for plumbing up a pillar though.

Green beam lasers take some beating for larger site work.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

Correct.

Could someone define what this means?

If a famous artist was to borrow that paintbrush you think I'm just about capable of using then he would be able to do something better than I could do with it, I get that.

But how exactly is someone with a B&Q trade discount card able to more meaningfully understand the meaning of a bubble inside a window with a line across the middle? Or are us lowly people with trousers that only have two pockets just not capable of understanding this level of talent?

The concept of a forum is for exchanging knowledge and helping people out of kindness, not for trying to make simple things appear to have an aura of mystery and wonder to inflate your ego.

 

[jeds]

Could someone define what this means?

You're over-thinking it. It just means a professional will get a better result from a basic tool than most amateurs. A pro photographer will most likely get a better photograph from a basic point and shoot camera. Not always, just on average.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

I just don't get the patronising tone from some. It reveals much more about the person giving this attitude (probably insecurity) than the person it's aimed at.

There are pretty much no formal training requirements for any trade in the UK. You buy a van, you're a "professional". I've seen some wonderful and terrible work by DIYers and by the trade.

I've stripped out our shower room, which was converted to a wetroom by a "professional" under a grant for someone disabled who lived here. It was ridiculous - the extractor blew into the garage, the shower and toilet wastes were leaking under the floor (probably from day one), among a multitude of major issues. I ripped it out and started again. I have no relevant qualifications, but I do take care, know my limits and find stuff out where I don't know the answer.

Those who are DIYers are likely to have a day job that's way more complex and technical than slapping bricks on top of each other in a straight line. A bit of mutual respect would be a very good thing around here.

 

[lostinthelight]

I got a Bosch digital level a few years back and it's great for levelling when you can't see the level. Just put it on the thing and listen for the tone. Should have got one years back. Also great for setting things (like patios ) with a constant fall as you can set the angle required.

Especially if they have a laser as well

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

There are pretty much no formal training requirements for any trade in the UK. You buy a van, you're a "professional". I've seen some wonderful and terrible work by DIYers and by the trade.

I have the greatest of respect for the true professionals, of all trades, but the above statement is very, very true - and an hour ago I had one such van at my door, touting for work.

I have no relevant qualifications, but I do take care, know my limits and find stuff out where I don't know the answer.

I am well qualified, but not in any things useful to DIY, but most of it is basic common sense, a bit of investigation and an occaisional bit of research. None of us can possibly be an expert in all fields, but with a bit of research, practice and care, we can all maybe turn out as good a job as a pro, and in many cases better... We live on site, and time is not so important to us, as money.

 

[^woody^]

Those who are DIYers are likely to have a day job that's way more complex and technical than slapping bricks on top of each other in a straight line

That's the thing when you don't have a clue what you are talking about, it's not just "slapping bricks on top of each other in a straight line".

It's the difference between a professional who has done years of training and then years of working, and an amateur or a person who has bought a white van one hour ago and touts for work.

Your lack of knowledge can't see, understand or appreciate a mundane thing like a brick wall, as it's all just "bricks on top of each other in a straight line". So of course, anyone can do that. - you need you change your name you Yosser Hughes.

And that cluelessness and disdain for proper tradespeople is most likely the root of your own attitude problems and insecurities. You think you can do the same or better, when really all you are doing is getting to some or other standard, by some or other method, and at some or other cost, and which you accept as good enough. And then all of a sudden in your mind, you are as good as any other professional tradesperson who has been training and working for years.

 

[Ivor Windybottom]

That's the thing when you don't have a clue what you are talking about, it's not just "slapping bricks on top of each other in a straight line".

It's the difference between a professional who has done years of training and then years of working, and an amateur or a person who has bought a white van one hour ago and touts for work.

Your lack of knowledge can't see, understand or appreciate a mundane thing like a brick wall, as it's all just "bricks on top of each other in a straight line". So of course, anyone can do that. - you need you change your name you Yosser Hughes.

And that cluelessness and disdain for proper tradespeople is most likely the root of your own attitude problems and insecurities. You think you can do the same or better, when really all you are doing is getting to some or other standard, by some or other method, and at some or other cost, and which you accept as good enough. And then all of a sudden in your mind, you are as good as any other professional tradesperson who has been training and working for years.

More of the usual.

You've clearly got lots of knowledge, and help lots of others. But you seem to have something of a top-dog thing going on.

I may have been mocking your attitude with a few wind-ups in retalliation, and you've obviously taken the bait. Could I suggest a cuppa?

You need to appreciate that, even as the self-appointed world expert on everything, others may have differing opinions. Most people can exchange views without having a tantrum and lobbing childish insults, while some take every differing opinion as a personal insult that upsets them.

I reiterate - this is a DIY forum, this thread even specifically states in post 1 that it's for a DIY project. I suggested a tool that I'm certain is completely up to the job, I'm happy to hear differing opinions. I hadn't actually considered that they have different accuracy levels, that's something I've learnt that's useful to know, i.e. two could agree on the thing being level but one would go off-centre at a lower deviation than the other.

But all this detail makes sod all difference to DIY laying a patio, where the accuracy of any is going to be way better than the variation of the slabs, and lifespan is going to be vastly more than the time taken to lay one patio.

 

[noseall]

But all this detail makes sod all difference to DIY laying a patio, where the accuracy of any is going to be way better than the variation of the slabs, and lifespan is going to be vastly more than the time taken to lay one patio.

Some of our smooth stone patios require a high degree of accuracy, otherwise discrepancies do show...

Drain2

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Clean3

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Clean1

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• 26 Mar 2022

Pat3

• noseall
• 26 May 2017

Wave1

• noseall
• 22 May 2017

Wave3

• noseall
• 22 May 2017

Pat13

• noseall
• 17 Sep 2016

Pat15

• noseall
• 17 Sep 2016

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Most people can exchange views without having a tantrum and lobbing childish insults, while some take every differing opinion as a personal insult that upsets them.

Oh, really? So why this, then?

I think you're suffering from tool brand snobbery, you probably wear Makita socks. The monkey who put in the wonky cabinets probably just didn't bother using a level or some don't even own one.

You are the one who seems to have a problem with tradesmen and delights in lobbing insults, especially if they deign to disagree with your choice of tools. And why the immature and somewhat rude "handle"? Like other trades here, I buy tools to earn a living, a means ro an end, however unless specifically asked I often won't recommend many of the (trade) brands I buy for myself - the cost of some of my stuff simply couldn't be justified by many DIYers. But whilst I might be a bit of a "tool tart" (as many other tradesmen are), I am not wedded to a single brand in the way you seem to think. And I don't wear branded anything

And BTW it was door casings that we sometimes get monkeys on

I suggested a tool that I'm certain is completely up to the job, I'm happy to hear differing opinions

Now based on the foregoing, that isn't really true, is it? As it happens the Forge Steels I had were replaced by a not much more expensive set of Swansons which did me about 6 or 7 years. Pity is they are no longer imported or I'd have checked the prices and recommended them instead. At least the vials on those were consistent and they were quite robust for a low cost set

 

[noseall]

Those who are DIYers are likely to have a day job that's way more complex and technical than slapping bricks on top of each other in a straight line.

Have you ever had to lay a curved wall?

Bigwall1

• noseall
• 27 Jun 2021

Planter6

• noseall
• 22 Apr 2021

Planter5

• noseall
• 22 Apr 2021

Planter4

• noseall
• 22 Apr 2021

Planter3

• noseall
• 22 Apr 2021

Pat1

• noseall
• 26 May 2017

Curve3

• noseall
• 18 May 2017

Curve1

• noseall
• 18 May 2017

Out of all the trades I do, bricklaying is the one I'd say takes the longest to learn and is the most difficult to do well. Your patronising attitude smacks of extreme naivety and ignorance. Bricklaying and patios are not all about straight lines.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Is this turning into another noseall spam thread?