spur of a spur

[calum63]

As I have said, I agree.

Kind Regards, John

Sorry john I just realized.

 

[calum63]

It sounds like I may have thrown a spanner in the works by mentioning that, so feel free to ignore me! Leaving the ring intact appears perfectly acceptable, and even has some advantages (CPC redundancy!).

Jon

No worries

 

[stuartR1963]

Why don't you just extend the ring? You mention a cupboard, Is it not possible to take another cable from spur already there back to the original socket that supplies it? make that existing spur part of the ring? Then you can take your supply from that up to the attic for your socket or alternatively fit a FCU with a 13 amp then run a couple sockets from that?
You will have no need to mess to around with the circuit breaker.
Just a suggestion.

 

[JohnW2]

Why don't you just extend the ring? You mention a cupboard, Is it not possible to take another cable from spur already there back to the original socket that supplies it? make that existing spur part of the ring? Then you can ...

That would clearly be the 'best' approach, but it sounds as if getting access to the cable from that 'original' socket might be a practical consdieration that puts the OP off such an approach ...

.... I propose to put a single socket up in the attic the most convenient way to do this would be to take the feed into an existing double socket which is spurred from an original socket as the wiring can be conceiled in the cupboard in a neat fashion. ... I will do it by the book if need be but it will be an annoyance trying to get a cable from another socket up into the attic.

Kind Regards, John

 

[calum63]

Hi, I am going to prep up today, Just one more thing to be sure and know that I'm not wasting my time, Is it absolutely okay to do as I propose which is to take the supply from the existing spur providing I down rate the upstairs ring to 20 amp?
From what I understand the 32 amp breaker is stopping me at the moment, due to concerns of overload according to regs?
please confirm if this is correct.
Sorry to be a pest, I just want to make sure I am doing it correctly, I would extend the ring and be done with it if I could but that won't not possible without disrupting decor.
From the cupboard Its possible to take a cable back to the original socket but that would mean there would be 4 cables at that point, that sounds messy and not sure if its allowed, I suppose I could disconnect one leg from the ring at this socket and join to the new cable in wago in and leave it in the back box?
that way there will be two cables to loft, one from the spur in question and the other going back to original socket.

I wish I could take pictures It would explain things so much better or draw a diagram, although I guess you electrician's have an idea what I'm trying to describe.
thanks

 

[EFLImpudence]

Is it absolutely okay to do as I propose which is to take the supply from the existing spur providing I down rate the upstairs ring to 20 amp?

Yes.

From what I understand the 32 amp breaker is stopping me at the moment, due to concerns of overload according to regs?
please confirm if this is correct.

Yes, with two double sockets on a spur, it would be possible (although highly unlikey) to have 52A load (4 x 13A), albeit limited to 32A by the breaker on a 27A cable.

Sorry to be a pest, I just want to make sure I am doing it correctly, I would extend the ring and be done with it if I could but that won't not possible without disrupting decor.

No need. As you say, 32A for an upstairs supply is not needed.

From the cupboard Its possible to take a cable back to the original socket but that would mean there would be 4 cables at that point, that sounds messy and not sure if its allowed,

Four cables in the box, not in the socket. Perfectly alright.

I suppose I could disconnect one leg from the ring at this socket and join to the new cable in wago in and leave it in the back box?
that way there will be two cables to loft, one from the spur in question and the other going back to original socket.

That is what you would have to do.

 

[JohnW2]

I suppose I could disconnect one leg from the ring at this socket and join to the new cable in wago in and leave it in the back box? ... that way there will be two cables to loft, one from the spur in question and the other going back to original socket.

That is what you would have to do.

I'm getting a little lost/confused, but would not doing exactly what the OP describes create a 'figure-of-8 circuit' (albeit that is not necessarily a problem), rather than a simply extended ring?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Is he not describing extending the ring in the correct way?

Why would he need Wagos to make a figure of eight?

 

[JohnW2]

Is he not describing extending the ring in the correct way? Why would he need Wagos to make a figure of eight?

As I said, I'm getting a bit lost/confused. I thought the socket in the cupboard from which he wanted to take the loft supply was already a spur from the ring, and that he was talking about taking one cable from that to the loft, and another cable to the soft from 'the original socket'.

What is your understanding of what was being proposed?

My confusion continues (and I haven't re-read everything) ... has no-one suggested that he simply puts an FCU upstream of this spurred socket, thereby creating a fused spur to which he could add as many sockets in his loft as he likes?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

From the cupboard Its possible to take a cable back to the original socket but that would mean there would be 4 cables at that point,

 

[JohnW2]

From the cupboard Its possible to take a cable back to the original socket but that would mean there would be 4 cables at that point

Yes, I read that. Does it mean that he was talking about breaking the ring at the 'original socket' and thereby incorporating the cupboard socket (and, presumably, the loft ones, into the ring?

Even if the anticipated loads are low, it seems a bit of a pity to me to down-rate a 32A ring circuit to 20A just so that one can have more than one socket on an 'unfused spur'. Personally, I would either extend the ring, as described, or else (per previous post) convert the spur to a fused one, leaving the rest of the ring as 32A.

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Yes, I read that. Does it mean that he was talking about breaking the ring at the 'original socket' and thereby incorporating the cupboard socket (and, presumably, the loft ones, into the ring?

I think so, but that would mean spoiling the decor, so not much point if not necessary.

Even if the anticipated loads are low, it seems a bit of a pity to me to down-rate a 32A ring circuit to 20A just so that one can have more than one socket on an 'unfused spur'.

I don't see why. The reduction will not be noticed.

Personally, I would either extend the ring, as described, or else (per previous post) convert the spur to a fused one, leaving the rest of the ring as 32A.

I presume Calum does not want to do either if there is another way - which there is.

 

[JohnW2]

Personally, I would either extend the ring, as described, or else (per previous post) convert the spur to a fused one, leaving the rest of the ring as 32A.

I presume Calum does not want to do either if there is another way - which there is.

So it seems, but I wonder why he does not want to adopt the latter of those approaches. Adding an FCU upstream of the existing spur (in the cupboard) would presumably not be a problem (either practically or aesthetically), and it would avoid the need to 'fiddle around in the CU'. Provided only that 13A was considered enough for the cupboard+loft sockets, that would seem the simplest option.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Hi, I am struggling to understand why you cannot spur of a spur on a ring final? I know you are technically not allowed to do according to wiring regulations

Are you not?

I didn't know that.

the most convenient way to do this would be to take the feed into an existing double socket...

Can you change that to a single?

How do dnos get away with these set ups and we don't?

Their cables, their rules.

 

[calum63]

So it seems, but I wonder why he does not want to adopt the latter of those approaches. Adding an FCU upstream of the existing spur (in the cupboard) would presumably not be a problem (either practically or aesthetically), and it would avoid the need to 'fiddle around in the CU'. Provided only that 13A was considered enough for the cupboard+loft sockets, that would seem the simplest option.

Kind Regards, John

I was considering that idea but then I thought it would be daft just having one random spur in the cupboard control just a bedroom socket as well as the attic and it can easily get knocked or damaged, I will just down rate the circuit breaker but I will leave the ring wiring as it is, like I say certainly don't need 32 amps upstairs or ever draw that much current in general, 20 amps should be plenty for me and it allows me to do what I intend as the cabling will properly protected which is what this is all about after all.
cheers