Stuck between a rock and a hard place

[Taylortwocities]

 

[abzz]

i cant agree more----it must have been plainly obvious that the electrical installation was old and in need of replacing.believe me £2200 is not expensive and would be wisely spent.i see many poorly installed electrical installations,usually installed by "competent" persons.if you are asking questions regarding the methods employed then you are clearly not competent.surely safety should be your primary concern?
as for using a meter to check the circuitary,after switching off----this is common sense, not an added safety feature.
employ a reputable sparks,via recommendation,who will install and test to bs7671 and sleep safely.
electrical work is a trade,not a pastime to dabble in.
sorry for the negative post,but its my experience that dictates this stance.

 

[plugwash]

Though not always feasible it is often a good idea to check both before and after switching off. That way you can be pretty sure that the thing you just turned off was what actually turned off the power.

Also ideally you should lockout the device you use to isolate. If that is not feasible then at least warn everyone else in the property that you are working on the electrics and not to touch anything in the CU without asking you first.

 

[chojin360]

Good evening chaps

looked like i stirred up a right old bee's nest here !!

and im loving some of your replies !!!

but im a happy chappy and can take it all with a pinch of salt

the boiler .. ha ha ha now thats ammusing ....

after moving into the house , we put in a brand new boiler and 10 new rads , all the windows have been changed to brand new double glazing , the dorma roof has been replaced and the cladding around it has all been changed to plastic , 14 trees have had to be cut down in the garden - so the last 7 months has been pretty hetic and we have spend over 10K already

yes it was a cheap house ... and now we are finding out why !! LOL

the sparky is pretty cheap at £2.2k - but thats not including any finishing work and to reconnect the garage and shower could be extra

most of the rooms only have the one socket ( single ) and every room has a light - so for arguments sake we have

1 - dining room - 1S socket , 1 light
2 - living room - 2D & 1S socket , 1 light
3 - bathroom - 0 Sockets , 1 Light , 1 shower
4 - comp room - 1D & 1S Socket , 1 light
5 - kitchen - errrrrr - 4D & 1S Socket , 1 Light , 1 Elec Cooker
6 - Bedroom 1 - 1S Socket , 1 Light
7 - Bedroom 2 - 1S Socket , 1 Light
8 - Bedroom 3 - 1S Socket , 1 Light
9 - Garage - Armoured Cable to it - Its own CU
10 - Hall Stairs Landing - 0 Sockets , 2 Lights

so thats a rough break down to clear up any confusion - so in real terms the upstairs of the house has 3 plug sockets - now i cant see that taking a long time to sort out ??? ( inless im missing something ! )

the wifey is back at work soon , but with the ever increasing costs of nursery , food and petrol to pick £2.2K out of the air is getting difficult - to be honest - yes i do have it - but it would eliminate any savings we have and i like to have a rainy day fund ( all the other work has been paid in cash and i dont do loans or credit cards )

still i like the comments that are banded around - i have read back over them a few times and im still smiling

anyways - more ideas are welcomed - if push comes to shove and i need to pay the guy - then i will - i just think £2.2k for a single guy is a lot to ask ? - maybe it is cheap but it seems a lot

it would have been nice to see what the cost is for parts ( CU , Wiring etc.. ) and just to see what he wants to earn in a week ?

ALSO - whilst im here - he recommend that its done as a radial in 4mm wiring - is this advisable - or is a ring still better ??

many thanks so far - i cant wait to read more responses

Stu

 

[professional]

Sympathy may be a bit thin on the ground at the moment I`m afraid - many of us have recently had to spend in the region of £250-£300 for a ONE DAY 17th Ed regs "update" course for which we get virtually no benefit!

Buying a house without a proper survey (or ,far more useful, trade knowledge) can be a very expensive mistake. The problem is that it seems that many people don`t want to pay for someones expertise BEFORE they purchase, are unwilling to pay for someones expertise when they HAVE purchased, and I very much doubt that they want to pay for any expertise in the future! - so there is a great temptation to just switch off since we`ve heard it all before I`m afraid.

Unfortunately, as you have discovered to your cost, most surveys aren`t worth the paper that they are written on.

If the solution to your problem was as simple as buying a few books and duping some poor sap into signing for unskilled work you could set yourself up as a self taught property developer!

£2,200 for the work that you describe is more than fair - following advice on how to circumvent Part P may well just lead you into digging yourself into an even bigger hole. This sort of advice is always freely available BEFORE things go wrong. As for these so-called liability policies that are being sold as a get-around for not having an Electrical Installation Certificate, I very much doubt that they`ll actually pay out when push come to shove - a bit like redundancy insurance.

 

[streetlighter]

the price you have been quoted is quite cheap for labour intensive skilled work. Id get in there quick while the quote is still valid, Any chance of a pic of the old fuseboard ?
You really need to replace that rubber cable now have a look at the video on the electrical safety council website to see what can happen if you dont.

 

[abzz]

he will only earn an honest wage for a skilled trade,and probably not as much as he warrants, for his skill and knowledge
out of interest what do you earn,and what for?
why didnt you install the central heating yourself,its easier than rewiring and would have saved you a lot of money---and it wont kill you when you cock up.
this really isnt something you should be attempting unless you have thorough understanding and the relevant knowledge---which unfortunately you do not have

 

[flyingsparks]

Hi Chojin360, 2.2K is cheap for a rewire as others have said, a lot of that cost will be parts to, cable has gone up in price a lot recently.
I think you really ought to get this done ASAP by a pro, you have said yourself you have kid(s) and by the sounds of it your installation REALLY does need replacing. You would never forgive yourself (god forbid) should the worst happen...

Borrow money from mates or what ever means you can to get it done. Hope you sort something out soon
Chris

 

[mst]

How about £5000 and ill do it properly by a skilled electrican


£5050 and ill notify to BC for you too

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If the solution to your problem was as simple as buying a few books and duping some poor sap into signing for unskilled work you could set yourself up as a self taught property developer!

Nah - you need big t*ts to be able to do that...

 

[chojin360]

Hiya again

blimey - im loving your posts i really am !!

i must admit - its an insight to say the least

i didnt do the central heating my self as gas and water arent my forte to be honest - yes elec can kill but so can gas ( and you cant see it or know not to touch it )

the windows - again i had to pay a company to fit these - but you seem to get a lot of product for the price

and when i bought the house - i was unable to get an electrician to look at the job as the sellers werent that open - but then on the flip side of that coin i expect that when all of you buy a car you all get a fully qualified mechanic to look at it and give you a complete report on the state of it and also get your own seperate HPI check and veryify the milage before you purchase or do you just fix it when its broken ??

as far as my job goes , unfortunatly i get to sit in front of a PC all day and write systems for our local NHS - so based on the fact that i cant rewire a house - you can be thankful that when you are in hospital the system that are in use might have been written by me - i hope it doesnt break because you have all seemed to have labeled me as useless ??

at the end of the day everything works as it should in the house - its obviously my mistake trying to seek advice BEFORE i do anything and getting a written quote - simple trying to get the house safe for my wifey and kids .. oppss how silly of me

im off to bed soon - but as a last note when we were purchasing the house we were advised by the mortgage company not to get a full survery as they wont comment on electrial items and will simple state that it should be checked by a regulated company ( this also applies to gas aswell )

i bid you all good night and look forward to reading more about this in the morning

if you ever stop by on the forums that i help run - i will try to give out more positive advice and not try to belittle a person that i do not know

C Ya in the morning

Stu

 

[abzz]

we are only trying to make you realise what is involved but hey --part of me hopes you take it on,you might learn some respect---be it the hard way.
you earn a decent living for looking at a computer all day and shuffling paper----can you know see where we're coming from?
good luck,whichever course you take

 

[jason1958]

following advice on how to circumvent Part P may well just lead you into digging yourself into an even bigger hole.

You can not circumvent Part P, it would be illegal as stated.

Legality aside, regularisation is heavily against such actions
- Regularisation is more expensive than the genuine route - 20% more
- Regularisation process may require cables to be exposed & floors lifted, cost of new plastering, new wallpaper - may be extensive in cost
- Corrective action may be required - may be extensive in cost

Regularisation is aimed at emergency repairs.
- Corrective action in light of an electrical fire
- RCD on a TT supply missing or non-functional

As for these so-called liability policies that are being sold as a get-around for not having an Electrical Installation Certificate, I very much doubt that they`ll actually pay out when push come to shove - a bit like redundancy insurance.

Interesting - now apply it to electrician PIR insurance.
Perhaps you should press for self-certifying bodies to require a PIR undertaker is not permitted to perform remedials due to potential for conflict of interest?

Policies are not a get around for missing BR completion certs.
- Policies do not bankroll remedial works for known defects
- Policies are to protect against unknown defects

Contract law also covers false declaration.
The omission of a BR completion certificate where works have been performed could effectively render any works valueless and buyer offer reduced by the cost of a rewire.
This is one reason why I would abandon the self-certifying EIC and instead have LABC appoint independent third party I&T, reducing costs imposed on sparks.


Re OP rewiring quote.
- That quote is almost absurdly low until you posted the layout
- It suggests the rewire is "cable replacement + new 17th CU"??
- eg, sockets wired in radial form in 4mm FTE (fine if length in EFLI limits)

If the quote is basically a "cable replace job", OP may consider asking if he "opens the walls ready" will it help.
That comes down to the sparks schedule re substituting other higher value works in place of "house bashing phase".


I too doubt the OPs competence.
The friend may have done previous rewires, but that does not mean they are competent rewires

So I hope the OPs actions, not words, are to utilise the Part P process.
As I stated anything-but-BCO-inspects would be illegal, has future financial penalties & safety risks.

If the relative IS actually competent, I would have a spark perform option-4, fit CU, first sockets - but all lights.
Then the relative can extend the socket circuits as Part P quite legally permits.

 

[Cremeegg]

You claim you're hard up then say you can afford it. Water and gas may not be your forte but electricity clearly isn't either. Get a competent electrician in - domestic rewires can be hard graft and require skill and judgement to do well. As others have said the price you have looks like a good one.

How many tests did your double glazing fitters do on the windows? How many calculations did they do to make sure they worked properly and safely? Do the window fitters have an annual competence assesssment? Do they pay several hundred pounds for the priviledge? Do they have a grands worth of test equipment?

I just hope your NHS systems don't rely on grammar, punctuation, or spelling.

 

[chojin360]

I just hope your NHS systems don't rely on grammar, punctuation, or spelling.

it doesnt no - dont worry about that - but if they accidentally remove your leg when you are in for a check up - dont blame me

as per this thread - i have been simply asking advice and what stages i can do the work ( or someone to do the work for me )

Jason - thanks for your input in this - i see it as you do - its a cable replacement job - but looking into the regs - from what i see - i can replace chunks of cable that are damaged or dangerous - the thing with this - its then finding a sparky to place the CU - from the ones i have spoken to they wont do this because they cannot trust what the rewire job is like

all i was trying to do was save some ££££££ - which i expect most people try and do - i dont want a cowboy job as that is no good to me at all

i do not want to put my family at risk - but from what you are all saying - its better to pay someone to do it - which at this moment in time looks the better option

if i could have done some of the work myself ( or my dad ) then this would have been taken into consideration and acted on , but this looks like a non starter aswell

what i do be-grudge is paying a sparky to channel out walls and the such like when i have offered to take time off work and do a lot of the donkey work - but he hasnt accepted this kind offer

i expect a true professional to earn a good wage - but as i have said - i dont like paying someone £30 an hour to move furniture or lift floor boards

SOOOOOOOO...

we all agree the price is good - does any one have an idea of what the costs of materials are in this job - are we talking £1.2K in material and then £1k in labour - or am i off the mark

i wish i could earn 1k for a weeks work ( yes i know its top line ) - its just something else i dont like - paying a month of my wage for a week of someone elses work

i must admit , i have thought over simply about this problem - in my eyes it would seem that all you have to do is run a cable thru the house and connect it to various sockets - yes i can appreciate that there is a load on the wiring and that you have to be aware of this - but surely a sparky can look at a house and the contents and work out pretty quickly what is required ?? or does he need to sit down for 6-7 hrs doing complex calculations ( like a structural engineer ?? )

can we confirm that using a radial is a good idea and can be extended easy enough - or should i ask for a requote of proper ring mains ??

looking forward to more replies

Stu