Sundial Y v Sundial S

[Goldberg]

To be honest, I have seen you boys ripping the guts out of poor old Goldberg in other posts

Oh don't feel sorry for me - I have all of the idiots on ignore, so if they're spending as much time throwing insults as they used to, then they're wasting an awful lot of time

your arguments get a bit too technical and I can't keep up with them

Technical?

If you're confused about how radiators are plumbed, and you don't believe me, then ask one of the little children on this forum to explain to you that radiators are piped in parallel, not in series - this means that any one radiator valve closing doesn't obstruct the distribution of water around the system. This is why the TRVs being closed doesn't create the need for a bypass. Anyone who tells you differently either doesn't understand or is deliberately misleading you.

 

[kevplumb]

one valve being closed makes no difference

if all trvs close down its the same as closing the zone valve

shut it goldberk you are out of your depth again

carefull you don't blow your prv

 

[DIYedboy]

Goldberg....................I'm anything but a plumber, but as I see it, in the CH circuit the only thing that connects the flow pipes to the return pipes are the rads themselves, if all rads are shut by TRV's then flow pipe don't meet return pipe= no flow=water jacket gettin too hot..........or am I wrong?

 

[Goldberg]

Goldberg....................I'm anything but a plumber

I realise that, hence I'm not using any jargon that you don't already know.

as I see it, in the CH circuit the only thing that connects the flow pipes to the return pipes are the rads themselves, if all rads are shut by TRV's then flow pipe don't meet return pipe= no flow=water jacket gettin too hot..........or am I wrong?

You're wrong, but only because you've been consistently misled by the pack of idiots giving you misguided advice - the rads are all in parallel with the flow/return pipework. Think about it - if you shut off one radiator, how do the rest stay hot?

 

[bengasman]

To be honest, I have seen you boys ripping the guts out of poor old Goldberg in other posts, but your arguments get a bit too technical and I can't keep up with them

It remains to be seen if the technical level is the cause of you not being able to follow them; it is more likely that it is the total nonsense of the troll that throws you off.

If you understand the principle of pressure in a water column, I can show you a nice post of the berk, where he takes the position that water in a sealed system is not subject to that principle; that is technical, but simple physics of well belove A-level.

Physics might not be your forte, but any plumber and any RGI, knows full well that the height of a building is quite important.
If you are working in a 4-floor large Victorian house with the boiler at the bottom, you can wait a long time when you are trying to bleed the rad at the top floor, and you filled the system to 1 bar cold.

 

[davebgas]

DIY, mate..

TRV's closing increases the radiator circuit resistance

If the system employes TRVs on ALL radiators, or two port valves without end switches then a bypass circuit must be fitted with an automatic bypass valve to ensure a flow of water should all valves be closed.

Most dont need a bypass (Icos system etc) but at least some radiators on the heating circuit, of load at least 10% of the min boiler output must be provided with twin lockshield valves so the min heating load is always available.

Hope it helps....

 

[bengasman]

goldberk you are out of your depth again

Doesn't exactly take a lot, does it?

 

[DIYedboy]

Because they are all paralled................but if they've all shut down, there is no paralleling and you have replicated an in series situation.

 

[davebgas]

Because they are all paralled................but if they've all shut down, there is no paralleling and you have replicated an in series situation.

Hence what I've just said...

If the system employes TRVs on ALL radiators, or two port valves without end switches then a bypass circuit must be fitted with an automatic bypass valve to ensure a flow of water should all valves be closed.

 

[kevplumb]

think of it like a ladder the rungs are the rads

 

[Goldberg]

Because they are all paralled................but if they've all shut down, there is no paralleling and you have replicated an in series situation.

You can't "replicate" an in-series installation - you either have one or you don't.

If someone has piped one (or more) of your radiators in series instead of in parallel, then you'll have a problem whether or not you have TRVs, because shutting off that radiator will stop the flow to all radiators in that zone.

If someone is telling you that this is normal, then you ought to consider whether or not that person is giving you good advice.

 

[davebgas]

Again....
TRV's closing increases the radiator circuit resistance

If the system employes TRVs on ALL radiators, or two port valves without end switches then a bypass circuit must be fitted with an automatic bypass valve to ensure a flow of water should all valves be closed.

Most dont need a bypass (Icos system etc) but at least some radiators on the heating circuit, of load at least 10% of the min boiler output must be provided with twin lockshield valves so the min heating load is always available.

ALL TRVS close.... water has nowhere to go if no ABV
Pumping against closed valves...
DIY you're right dont worry...

 

[DIYedboy]

Dave, Ben, Kev..............I understand it now, it's not really about TRV's, if I have 2 2port valves I'm in trouble every time the roomstat says 'shut down son I'm hot' cos the boiler waterjacket will overheat it's contents as the overrun can't clear it hence the need for the ABV

 

[bengasman]

You're wrong, but only because you've been consistently misled by the pack of idiots giving you misguided advice

Interesting. If we are misguided, and you are the expert, how come we are all RGI's and you are on the dole?

- the rads are all in parallel with the flow/return pipework. Think about it - if you shut off one radiator, how do the rest stay hot?

Rads are most certainly not parallel with the flow and return pipes; if they were, the would not get hot.
The reason they get hot, is that they are parallel with each other, and in series with the flow and return pipe.

And it goes like this:
Out the boiler, in the flow pipe.
Out the flow pipe, in the rad(s)
Out the rad(s), in the return pipe.
Out the return pipe, in the boiler

If the rads really WERE parallel with the flow and return, it would be:
Out the boiler, in the flow pipe, to the end of the flow pipe, stop.
Dito for rad and return pipe.
Oh, but if the rads were parallel to the flow pipe, where would the be connected to?

You see diyedboy? This is what I mean; he googles the answer, but does not really understand what he copies.

Coldberk is what is known as:

Untitled

• bengasman
• 12 Sep 2009
• 5

 

[bengasman]

Dave, Ben, Kev..............I understand it now, it's not really about TRV's, if I have 2 2port valves I'm in trouble every time the roomstat says 'shut down son I'm hot' cos the boiler waterjacket will overheat it's contents as the overrun can't clear it hence the need for the ABV

You could say that.