Switched Live sleeving when looping at switch

[JohnW2]

If you are going to do this sort of thing, I think it would be more appropriate to identify the permanent line(s). I just used to use a permanent marker.

Any of 'those sorts of things' (at least in the ways so far mentioned), would usually only be meaningful to the person who did it - in which case one can adopt whatever approach one wants, so long as it does not violate existing standards/conventions. My personal convention, when there is both P/L and S/L in a cable, has always been to use the brown (or, previously, red), without any additional identification as the P/L - not the least because, if I did otherwise and wanted whole-house consistency, I would have to go around 'identifying' all the permanent Ls as such!

With that convention, then, other than with 'twin brown' (or, previously, 'twin red'), there should not really be a need for any additional over-sleeving to identify a conductor as a switched L - since, if the brown (or red) is always used as the P/L, then anything which has been over-sleeved in brown (or red) is, by implication, a S/L.

In any event, this is all, at most, a matter of slight 'convenience' - since, if/when one ever needs to know which of two conductors is P/L and which is S/L, it only takes a few seconds to determine that by testing.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

Use 1 small 5mm wide Ring of Brown on the Live and 2 small 5mm Rings of Brown on the switch live, (ie In and Out) its not a Reg but helps distinquish

As I said, when I feel it's needed (which is rarely), I've always used a small ring of yellow on just the S/L - but neither your method nor mine would have definite meaning to someone other than ourselves - other people might 'guess' what our markings meant, but that's hardly adequate!!

Kind Regards, John

 

[securespark]

If you use twin brown (or red), I have found the cores are distinguished from each other in one of two ways: sometimes by a ridge down the outside of the conductor insulation on one of the conductors or by the insulation colouring. When you cut through the conductor and view it end-on, you see that one is brown all the way through and one is just coloured on the outside and is whitish in the middle.

 

[scousespark]

If you use twin brown (or red), I have found the cores are distinguished from each other in one of two ways: sometimes by a ridge down the outside of the conductor insulation on one of the conductors or by the insulation colouring. When you cut through the conductor and view it end-on, you see that one is brown all the way through and one is just coloured on the outside and is whitish in the middle.

The poster has said he is looping at the switch and has a picture showing 2 blue conductors at neutral, 1 brown at com and 1 brown at L1. Given the brown sleeve indicates the blue conductor is not the neutral. There is no point over-sleeping the conductor.

 

[securespark]

I was not talking about sleeving. Just giving folk hints and tips about how to distinguish between conductors in a twin red/brown and earth cable.

 

[JohnW2]

If you use twin brown (or red), I have found the cores are distinguished from each other in one of two ways: sometimes by a ridge down the outside of the conductor insulation on one of the conductors or by the insulation colouring. When you cut through the conductor and view it end-on, you see that one is brown all the way through and one is just coloured on the outside and is whitish in the middle.

That's all true. However, in the absence of any official conventions, let alone Standards, it's much the same as yellow or brown 'rings', in that the way in which the two (distinguishable) browns (or reds) are used is solely down to whoever did it, so no-one else can confidently draw conclusions as to 'which conductor is being used to do what'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[333rocky333]

I have encountered switches where the Blue (sleeved Brown ) was Live and Brown was Switch live, so testing as JW says is the only real way to verify.
I only tend to mark them when its a switch replacement often multi gang as well as looped Feeds in my work.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I have encountered switches where the Blue (sleeved Brown ) was Live and Brown was Switch live, so testing as JW says is the only real way to verify.

Yes, some people prefer that way as you can tell the switch cable at the rose.

Had a picture a couple of days ago in another thread.

 

[333rocky333]

How was it done in the early days of pyro with black neoprene, i dont recall a Reg back then

 

[EFLImpudence]

As long as the conductors are identified as line, it doesn't really matter, I suppose.

 

[JohnW2]

I have encountered switches where the Blue (sleeved Brown ) was Live and Brown was Switch live ...

Same here - but, I imagine tat most people (like myself) probably do the opposite. However, we are all agreed that ....

... so testing as JW says is the only real way to verify.

... and I think the testing would still be necessary (if identification of the L and S/L 'mattered') even if there were a 'label' explicitly identifying one conductor as "Switched Live" - since one cannot rely on what someone else wrote, maybe decades ago!

Kind Regards, John

 

[yorkspark]

They seemed to use the phase colour as the switch live marker on old pyros, ie all the circuits on yellow phase had yellow markers, all blue phase had blue markers etc, which I think is/was a good idea

 

[JohnW2]

Yes, some people prefer that way as you can tell the switch cable at the rose....

I don't quite yunderstand that - can you clarify?

If a red/blue T+E cable is used for the connection between switch and rose, then the blue would have to be oversleeved with brown at both ends, regardless of any other identification. If there is no other identification then, in the absence of official conventions/standards, one would not know (at either end) whether brown of blue-oversleeved-with-brown was the S/L, would one?

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

I don't quite yunderstand that - can you clarify?

For the switch cable, if they use the blue connected to the loop and brown as the return switched live, then it is apparent which is the switch cable - nothing to do with conductor identification with sleeving or other methods.

Obviously, someone could identify it with a label stating 'switch cable' - but they don't.

 

[EFLImpudence]

As in this recent thread, it is obvious which is the switch cable - assuming nothing stupid has been done.

https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/where-have-i-cocked-up.526744/