Syphilis

[carmanmemoranda]

Can I ask you a question?

What do you do for a living?

No, I'm not being snide; depending on your answer, this might lead somewhere very relevant to this thread.

The answer is in my name. Car man. Self employed mechanic, with a history of other jobs too. Started as a mech, went away from it, returned to it

 

[carmanmemoranda]

I was quite relaxed about it considering. I suppose a lot had to do with the fact that I was safe in the knowledge I'd had my harmless jabs. Two and a half years and still no hairs on the palms of my hands.

Me too.

Assessed the risk between having it and not having it and decided having it was the better choice.

I personally don't care what choices other people make/made, as long as they don't keep forcing the scare tactics down my throat, or making out it's all a big conspiracy hoax.

 

[Brigadier]

The answer is in my name. Car man. Self employed mechanic, with a history of other jobs too. Started as a mech, went away from it, returned to it

Would you say that you, if asked, could offer advice and guidance on how to work in your sector safely?

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Would you say that you, if asked, could offer advice and guidance on how to work in your sector safely?

Simple answer is yes, but so many variables.

For instance I don't do welding or much "hot work" or bodywork and painting because of insurance so don't have up to date full info on that area. Also mechanics covers such a plethora of job types, some I do, some I don't.

 

[Brigadier]

Simple answer is yes, but so many variables.

For instance I don't do welding or much "hot work" or bodywork and painting because of insurance so don't have up to date full info on that area. Also mechanics covers such a plethora of job types, some I do, some I don't.

Valuable input, within acknowledged sphere, nonetheless.




However, during evidence to the DWP Work and Pensions Select Committee this year, a professor said that [you, and yours] were not suitable for advising the Workplace Health and Safety Committee, as "it was for academics".

Would you like to hazard a guess as to whether the above was an extraordinary outlier, or not an uncommon state of affairs?

What are your thoughts on having [your sectors'] guidance discussed, decided, and written by academics, because "you grease monkeys are all too thick to know what's good for you"?


(Thankfully, the prof was slapped down by the Select Committee MP who asked the question, and was tasked with writing a positive response about workplace representation on said committee, going forward).

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Valuable input, within acknowledged sphere, nonetheless.




However, during evidence to the DWP Work and Pensions Select Committee this year, a professor said that [you, and yours] were not suitable for advising the Workplace Health and Safety Committee, as "it was for academics".

Would you like to hazard a guess as to whether the above was an extraordinary outlier, or not an uncommon state of affairs?

What are your thoughts on having [your sectors'] guidance discussed, decided, and written by academics, because "you grease monkeys are all too thick to know what's good for you"?


(Thankfully, the prof was slapped down by the Select Committee MP who asked the question, and was tasked with writing a positive response about workplace representation on said committee, going forward).

There's a lot to answer in there and I'm running away soon.

But none of that attitude surprises me, but I would challenge any academic (of that ilk) to walk into any workshop, and be safe.

But all health and safety advice and guidance is exactly that, guidance. The actual important bit is the daily application of safety and safe systems of work.

Conversely there are lots of mechanics that will take shortcuts (non safe ways of working) either through ignorance, lack of knowledge or because it is quicker and therefore cheaper. To some extent the advice and guidelines from above is the only way to even attempt to address that.

There is no simple system or answer, but happy to discuss it more.

Happy to have further chats about it, but

 

[Brigadier]

guidance is exactly that, guidance

Until, but nature of your industry, it becomes de facto mandatory.

That's just one issue.

 

[Brigadier]

But, this is just a diversion.

The main point is that governments will do what they want, commission the "research" they need, to get the "reports" that support what they were going to do anyway.

I'm not saying that all reports are guff.
I am saying that not all reports are honest.
Believe in them blindly, at your peril.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

Until, but nature of your industry, it becomes de facto mandatory.

That's just one issue.

Fair point. But because of the diverse nature of mechanics and workshops I don't see how it could ever be enforced.

For example, spanner slipping and fingers getting cut, bruised or worse. There are ways to avoid it, but enforce it? That's before you get onto the big stuff that can do life altering damage.

Ppe for example. Different parts of the trade need different safety boots for different reasons. Enforce that, how ?

 

[Brigadier]

Fair point. But because of the diverse nature of mechanics and workshops I don't see how it could ever be enforced.

For example, spanner slipping and fingers getting cut, bruised or worse. There are ways to avoid it, but enforce it? That's before you get onto the big stuff that can do life altering damage.

Ppe for example. Different parts of the trade need different safety boots for different reasons. Enforce that, how ?

You're missing the point.

YOU might be (probably are) best placed to know best.

But you are actively excluded.

Sometimes, because "you are not academic", or "you didn't go to the right university", or "you are in the right club".

Sometimes, because you would give the "wrong" (as in, correct) answer.

Multiply that by the whole country.

 

[carmanmemoranda]

You're missing the point.

YOU might be (probably are) best placed to know best.

But you are actively excluded.

Sometimes, because "you are not academic", or "you didn't go to the right university", or "you are in the right club".

Sometimes, because you would give the "wrong" (as in, correct) answer.

Multiply that by the whole country.

I understand that. I agree with you.

But it just cannot be enforced, and that's probably what "those up the top" making the rules can't see or understand

 

[denso13]

You're missing the point.

I think I might be as well. Do you mean everyone should be involved in decision making, or at least everyone who has a working knowledge of something?

In my own sphere, Health and Safety in construction is constantly derided as red tape nonsense but it has made a huge difference. There wasn't a committee of "everyone", but the the people at he top seem to have got it right.

 

[Brigadier]

But it just cannot be enforced,

Diversion, but take what you've just said and consider it "from the other side".

You "do it right", because you're sensible, conscientious, and are "following the guidance".
But you're losing work to someone who isn't.
Enough to put your business in jeopardy.
Now what?
After all, "it's only guidance", and "it can't be enforced"......

 

[Notch7]

The answer is in my name. Car man. Self employed mechanic, with a history of other jobs too. Started as a mech, went away from it, returned to it

Are you a mobile mechanic or based in a workshop?

I use a mobile mechanic he is really great - I guess there’s a trade off between having no workshop overheads and the inconvenience of working on driveways etc

 

[Brigadier]

I think I might be as well. Do you mean everyone should be involved in decision making, or at least everyone who has a working knowledge of something?

In my own sphere, Health and Safety in construction is constantly derided as red tape nonsense but it has made a huge difference. There wasn't a committee of "everyone", but the the people at he top seem to have got it right.

No, I don't mean everyone should be involved in decision making.
What I am saying is "who the decision makers choose to be involved in the decision making" has material effect in the decision arrived at.
Obvious really and, provided all have best interests at heart, fine.

"Tell me what you finding you want, and I'll find it." This was the reputation gain by someone I know (but have little time for) who was quite influential in the research that supported policy, a few years ago.

It still goes on.