The Saville Report

[lifesagasman]

You're right, which is why I have made no comments on the events of that day.

Really?..I suppose your comments about 'paramilitaries' not being recognisable referred to other events and explicitly NOT this one?

keep digging...

Can you show any evidence of any paramilitary presenting themselves in uniform to an opposing faction at any time? They hide behind anonimity and civilians, don't they?

You're in charge of the shovel.

 

[ellal]

Can you show any evidence of any paramilitary presenting themselves in uniform to an opposing faction at any time? They hide behind anonimity and civilians, don't they?

And of course our beloved SAS assassination squads and undercover units always wore uniforms...

Like I say, muddying the waters doesn't hide the fact that in this instance civilians were murdered by the British Army...

 

[lifesagasman]

Can you show any evidence of any paramilitary presenting themselves in uniform to an opposing faction at any time? They hide behind anonimity and civilians, don't they?

And of course our beloved SAS assassination squads and undercover units always wore uniforms...

Like I say, muddying the waters doesn't hide the fact that in this instance civilians were murdered by the British Army...

By stating this, are we to assume that you were there, or are you surmising this from 40 year old 'versions' (from both sides) of events.

If you weren't there you can't make such assertions with any accuracy.

 

[ellal]

By stating this, are we to assume that you were there, or are you surmising this from 40 year old 'versions' (from both sides) of events.

If you weren't there you can't make such assertions with any accuracy.

I guess 'death on the rock' was a fantasy then...

So according to you (again), "unless you were there, man" you have no right to comment?

So what exactly are you doing here?...

 

[lifesagasman]

If you rely on that argument, then no-one but immediate witnesses to any event have any right to comment on anything, including yourself...

You're right, which is why I have made no comments on the events of that day.

You have given a lot of opinion , so what was your involvement on that day? Were you there?
Has your first-hand evidence been submitted to the report?

Please read my previous (re-posted) post, above. You can see that I have made no judgement on the events.[/quote]

You entered the post saying if you weren't there etc. I agreed with that.

At this time I am asking questions, which you don't answer, asking you what you witnessed on the Bloody Sunday which allows you to claim that civilians were murdered by the Army.
Are you 100% certain that none were killed by 'friendly' fire (ie terrorist), , no revenge killing, no inter-denominational killing, no inter-faction killing etc.
If you are certain, then you must have been there, on the day, and witnessed every moment of every individuals actions. So now you're playing God?

 

[obmcfc]

Ellal, my post was stating that other people hurt, I think my friends deserve an inquiry as their murder is just as bad, and how I feel bad about other things that happened, I don't think you can pick out any one incident because one leads onto another

Have you ever experienced terrorism at first hand?

 

[obmcfc]

Ellal have a read at a few of this links, in my eyes apart from the first one these are from normal everyday people in NI

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Exparatroopers-criticise-findings-of-Saville.6375601.jp

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/39I-want-McGuinness-in-the.6375607.jp

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Protestors-vent-fury-over-39onesided.6375623.jp

please don't say again this was about one incident......

 

[mark vincent]

You're right there. Mistakes were made, but try to bear in mind that the terrorists actions are pro-active, planned and pre-meditated.

Unlike of course the army going in to 'teach people a lesson'...

The army went into the bogside to restore law and order and not to teach people a lesson, they were confronted by mobs armed with rifles, machine guns, nail bombs( an improvised grenade made from a stick of gelignite and 6 inch nails) and last but not least the good old petrol bomb, if they were intent on a massacre why were there only 14 people wounded , if they were shooting at every thing that moved wouldn't there have been 100's killed and wounded.

 

[mark vincent]

Can you show any evidence of any paramilitary presenting themselves in uniform to an opposing faction at any time? They hide behind anonimity and civilians, don't they?

And of course our beloved SAS assassination squads and undercover units always wore uniforms...

Like I say, muddying the waters doesn't hide the fact that in this instance civilians were murdered by the British Army...

these so called innocent civilians were trying to murder the british army and not the other way around, the mobs tried to storm army lines and things were starting to get out of control, if they had managed to overwhelm the army by sheer weight of numbers then it would have been the security forces who would have been massacred, just like in the film Zulu.

 

[mark vincent]

By stating this, are we to assume that you were there, or are you surmising this from 40 year old 'versions' (from both sides) of events.

If you weren't there you can't make such assertions with any accuracy.

I guess 'death on the rock' was a fantasy then...

So according to you (again), "unless you were there, man" you have no right to comment?

So what exactly are you doing here?...

Let be honest about it mate, most people in this country don't care about the people killed on Bloody Sunday, sad but true, and why should they if we are going to get excited about the Bloody sunday victims then we are going to have to get excited about all the other victims army and police included.The point i am making is if i were to feel concern for the people who were shot i would have to ask myself why am i not concerned about all the other victims, when i see 200 million spent on this inquiry the state is saying that some victims are worth more than others and that is the real injustice.

 

[ellal]

You're right, which is why I have made no comments on the events of that day.

You have given opinions though, so no different fom myself..

And if no-one is allowed to post their opinions "if they weren't there, man", then you might as well strike out the vast majority of posts in virtually every topic discussed here- yours included!

 

[ellal]

Ellal, my post was stating that other people hurt, I think my friends deserve an inquiry as their murder is just as bad, and how I feel bad about other things that happened, I don't think you can pick out any one incident because one leads onto another

As I've said previously, if an inquiry is deserved it should happen...

Have you ever experienced terrorism at first hand?

Funnily enough I found myself trapped in batticaloa some time ago...shouldn't really have gone there, but hey ho...

 

[ellal]

Let be honest about it mate, most people in this country don't care about the people killed on Bloody Sunday, sad but true, and why should they if we are going to get excited about the Bloody sunday victims then we are going to have to get excited about all the other victims army and police included.The point i am making is if i were to feel concern for the people who were shot i would have to ask myself why am i not concerned about all the other victims, when i see 200 million spent on this inquiry the state is saying that some victims are worth more than others and that is the real injustice.

I'm not 'most people'..

Because I've come to realise that if you sweep things under the carpet, the majority of times it will come back to haunt you...

Better to accept failings rather than hope it all goes away.

So you tell me - would it be money wasted if it were your relatives who were murdered by the state?

 

[ellal]

The army went into the bogside to restore law and order and not to teach people a lesson, they were confronted by mobs armed with rifles, machine guns, nail bombs( an improvised grenade made from a stick of gelignite and 6 inch nails) and last but not least the good old petrol bomb, if they were intent on a massacre why were there only 14 people wounded , if they were shooting at every thing that moved wouldn't there have been 100's killed and wounded.

Why were there no residues of petrol bombs? - because there weren't any
What nail bombs? - the planted ones?
Only one machine gun was talked about - so why embelish the weaponry?
Why were people shot in the back - you can't explain that can you!

We could go on, but then it doesn't fit your idea of the 'truth' does it...here's a hint for you - the british army aren't always in the right..

 

[obmcfc]

Ellal, my post was stating that other people hurt, I think my friends deserve an inquiry as their murder is just as bad, and how I feel bad about other things that happened, I don't think you can pick out any one incident because one leads onto another

As I've said previously, if an inquiry is deserved it should happen...

Have you ever experienced terrorism at first hand?

Funnily enough I found myself trapped in batticaloa some time ago...shouldn't really have gone there, but hey ho...

Who do you propose pays for these inquiries, you say if it is deserved it should happen, who decides if it deserves inquiry