The 'vaccine' - will you have it? And why/why not?

[ellal]

Were it not for the fact that refuseniks who catch it will clog up hospitals and possibly infect others Id quite cheerfully say let the thickos die.

Apart from the fact that it isn't true that the hospitals will be clogged up, it may well turn out that those who would prefer to wait and see are a tad brighter than those who are blindly taking part in the largest human medical experiment ever.

The average age of death because of/with covid (we'll never know the truth of which is which) is higher than the actual average age of all deaths in the UK.

Given the amount of time and resources spent on what is in real terms a virus that has a low kill ratio, I wonder how many of those 'others' (many of them younger people) will die because of the massive backlog of routine/vital treatments?

And I'm wondering at what point those who happily take a not fully tested vaccine will become 'refuseniks' themselves, or will they just carry on allowing themselves to be jabbed with anything they are told to have?

 

[Lower]

I accept all vaccines that have been properly tested and approved.
This one has not been tested to usual standards and has not been approved unless in emergency, that's why they didn't lift the emergency status a few weeks ago.
On top of it, the "good people" producing it have asked and obtained immunity from any future prosecution or civil case.
Health insurance don't cover death by vaccine, I called mine.
So, as I am healthy and caught covid back in December 2019 (got all the symptoms), when the covid religion hadn't started yet, I will not inject myself with a substance that might make me ill.
I have stayed away from drugs all my life for fear of introducing something wrong in my body, I'm not gonna start now.
Furthermore, I know people who after the first dose have been ill, aching in the joints and with splitting headaches.
No thanks.

There are multiple vaccines available for Covid. Which ones haven't been tested and approved properly? AZ, Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson and Johnson, Novavax? Which of those vaccines have been tested by other countries and rejected as unsafe? Even the EU, with its risk averse procurement process, has either approved or is in the process of approving those vaccines.

I personally know two people that died after catching Covid that were otherwise reasonably fit and healthy and i personally know of about 20-30 people that have had Covid.

I personally know of well over a hundred people that have had Covid vaccines. Apart from very short term side effects, none of them have been ill or died. That ignores the fact that 1.5 billion have been vaccinated around the world. I'd say there's some strong testing results there alone.

It's your choice, but if you're making that choice on the basis that its not been properly tested, you're wrong.

 

[johnny2007]

It's your choice, but if you're making that choice on the basis that its not been properly tested, you're wrong.

So why have the pharmaceutical companies asked and obtained indemnity?
Fishy at best.
I hope the vaccine is safe, but we wouldn't know until a few years down the line.

 

[bernardgreen]

I hope the vaccine is safe, but we wouldn't know until a few years down the line

If it spreads and gets out of control and further mutates then it could become more lethal than it is now.

One super spreader ( of virus ) is putting more people's lives at risk than a drunk driver does. Unlike the victims of a drunken driver the victims of a super spreader are not known to be victims until days after their meeting with the spreader

Two quotes from LINK

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A meeting yesterday (Thursday [ 13th May ]) was told that the majority of the 34 Indian variant cases so far identified are “not travel related” but may have been spread by social activities among friends.

Borough public health chief Ian Brown said: “I believe that we’ve been unlucky in Bedford in that there were maybe a series of unfortunate events that led to a couple of gatherings and some super-spreading that’s now seeded into a number of our areas in Bedford.”

While cases are rising exponentially – doubling every seven days – among children and unvaccinated younger people, the meeting heard that there is no evidence that the new variant can escape the vaccine or causes more serious illnesses.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

~~~~~~~~~~~~
But with a further round of lockdown-easing coming on Monday, [17th May ] when people will be able to hug others, and go into pubs and restaurants, Mr Brown said it was a “critical moment” and asked “everyone to be very cautious”.

The meeting urged people to consider staying outside, rather than going into venues, and to follow the hands-face-space and fresh air advice.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[ellal]

Apart from very short term side effects, none of them have been ill or died. That ignores the fact that 1.5 billion have been vaccinated around the world. I'd say there's some strong testing results there alone.

It's your choice, but if you're making that choice on the basis that its not been properly tested, you're wrong.

So the 'strong testing' is being done on entire populations, not with control groups...

As I said the biggest medical experiment ever!

What happens if for example there are serious side effects/complications/deaths in a few years time due to 'unforeseen' reactions?

 

[Lower]

So why have the pharmaceutical companies asked and obtained indemnity?
Fishy at best.
I hope the vaccine is safe, but we wouldn't know until a few years down the line.

The asked for and were given indemnity by some governments because of the accelerated development that we asked for and because it reduces the cost of each dose. A mechanism was put in place in the UK where the UK government pays compensation in the event that someone dies from a vaccine, not the drug company.

Elsewhere in the world (where the vaccine roll out started later and has been slower) the pharmaceutical companies have not obtained indemnity.

 

[EddieM]

So the 'strong testing' is being done on entire populations, not with control groups...

As I said the biggest medical experiment ever!

What happens if for example there are serious side effects/complications/deaths in a few years time due to 'unforeseen' reactions?

No control groups?

So how long should we wait then?

What would you have done?

 

[SirGalahad]

So why have the pharmaceutical companies asked and obtained indemnity?
Fishy at best.
I hope the vaccine is safe, but we wouldn't know until a few years down the line.

Once we let the virus in and bungled our attempts at controlling it by not locking down early and hard, our only saviour so to speak was vaccines - which currently are having a positive effect in reducing hospitalisations and symptoms but we do not know the long term consequences of these vaccines.

In either case if there is any fallout the people who made these decisions will have long left office and there will be zero accountability.

 

[Lower]

So the 'strong testing' is being done on entire populations, not with control groups...

As I said the biggest medical experiment ever!

What happens if for example there are serious side effects/complications/deaths in a few years time due to 'unforeseen' reactions?

There was extensive testing before the vaccine was rolled out. But the roll out has been faster than normal because of the severity of the disease on all aspects of our lives which means the a huge number of people have already had the vaccine. No one is suggesting that the mass roll out was part of the testing, but its certainly vindicating the testing results and providing real world proof for the anti vax brigade and natural vaccine sceptics.

As for the whatifery, what if you catch covid and die?

 

[ellal]

As for the whatifery, what if you catch covid and die?

mottie could take me off his ignore list?

What if you die of cancer because your routine appointments have been postponed/cancelled because of the virus?

There was extensive testing before the vaccine was rolled out.

And how long was that testing done for?

It matters not that is was accelerated, as the whole idea of proper testing is to see the effects over a period of time and on different groups of people...

Apparently the next experiment is to start mixing the jabs, or to have further 'boosters' to see what happens...

'Extensive testing' ?

But hey if the jab happy lot want to prove the safety (or not), then I'll be able to make an informed choice

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

So why have the pharmaceutical companies asked and obtained indemnity?
Fishy at best.
I hope the vaccine is safe, but we wouldn't know until a few years down the line.

You are desperately looking for reasons not to have the jab, where there are none! Would you rather that thousands/millions died while we take time out to do long term testing? That is what you are basically doing in your own small way - you are leaving it to others to take the 'risk' of having the vaccine, whilst you wait to see if there are any ill effects - rather selfish don't you think.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

bit extreme

Not really - if an utterly barking mad swivel-eyed pollutant in the gene pool wishes to remove himself from it, Im all in favour. The world needs fewer people who believe in fabricated nonsense.

 

[Lower]

mottie could take me off his ignore list?

What if you die of cancer because your routine appointments have been postponed/cancelled because of the virus?

And how long was that testing done for?

It matters not that is was accelerated, as the whole idea of proper testing is to see the effects over a period of time and on different groups of people...

Apparently the next experiment is to start mixing the jabs, or to have further 'boosters' to see what happens...

'Extensive testing' ?

But hey if the jab happy lot want to prove the safety (or not), then I'll be able to make an informed choice

See here for how it was tested, which i'm sure you know.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext

What if you go into hospital for your routine cancer op, catch covid and die.

What if you can't have your cancer op because all the hospital beds are full of covid patients?

What if your severely handicapped younger brother who lives in a care environment gets seriously ill because he's has stopped eating as he can't mentally cope without monthly home visits to see his 75 year old mother to whom he has a disproportional mental attachment and has only been allowed to see the same 2 people he lives with and his carers for 14 months?

What if your 75 year old mother mentally collapses because she can't cope with the knowledge that her handicapped son is becoming seriously ill and she isn't well enough herself to remove him from the home and look after him full time?

What if more people taking up the vaccine and reducing the prevalence of the coronavirus and load on the NHS meant that the home visit restrictions for disabled people in care homes could be removed which would result in your brother having a chance to recover?

 

[bernardgreen]

if an utterly barking mad swivel-eyed pollutant in the gene pool wishes to remove himself from it,

The problem is that he or she would be spreading the virus until he or she is dead.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

.. covid religion ..

Tells us all we need to know about the relationship between the madness buzzing around inside your head and observable reality.